No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations  (Read 5074 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline neilh

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 347
Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« on: September 04, 2010, 04:24:28 PM »
I had an interesting photo come in to my website this week. Burtles & Tate registration 29106, from 1885, is of a flower boat but as so often with these things, it is unclear exactly what is being registered. The pattern? The shape? Both together?

I've been sent a photo of an item that also bears the reg number 29106 and the same pattern as the flower boat, but quite a different shape. I ran it past Dave Peterson who confirmed he has seen one of these in vaseline glass. The sides are 15cms long and it again appears to be a flower holder, like so many Burtles & Tate registrations.

So quite a different shape lurking under number 29106...

Thanks to Roy for the photo of the boat and J&J Jefferson for the photo of the triangle thing...

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 13564
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • My Glass Collection
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 05:05:18 PM »
Neil, Jenny Thompson* gives no. 29106 as "pattern of flower boat", which may or may not be helpful! ::)  * The Identification of English Pressed Glass 1842 -1908

Seriously though, as she seems to have transcribed what was shown in the registers, I would think that the boat was the original registered design, and that the same pattern was later used for other items...  would that make sense?

Could we add copies of the images into the Registered Design number reference album on GlassGallery please? http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=763
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
~ Glass Trinket Sets ~ GlassLinks ~ GlasSpeak ~ GlassGallery 
 ~  Glassoholic Blog ~ Glassoholic Gallery ~

Offline neilh

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 347
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 05:57:00 PM »
Hi Anne,
The images were given to my site but I'm sure the owners would not mind putting them in the gallery, so it's fine by me. Roy = mhgcgolfclub !

I have a photo of the original design sketch for 29106 and it is of the flower boat in Roy's picture. I say design sketch but actually it is a photograph. Some of these registrations are also a valuable source of Victorian photography. Burtles & Tate started to photograph their glass with design number 20085 in January 1885.

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 13564
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • My Glass Collection
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 06:07:59 PM »
Hi Neil, so that does sort of confirm my theory perhaps?

I'll ask Roy for his consent re the photo too. Thanks! :)
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
~ Glass Trinket Sets ~ GlassLinks ~ GlasSpeak ~ GlassGallery 
 ~  Glassoholic Blog ~ Glassoholic Gallery ~

Offline mhgcgolfclub

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1420
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 04:26:25 AM »
Hi

I have given Neil the OK to use any of my pictures , as to the triangle shape bowl its not an item that I have seen before

Roy

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 13564
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • My Glass Collection
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2010, 03:44:32 PM »
Thanks Roy. Neil and J&J Jefferson, now added into the RD album here:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=763
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
~ Glass Trinket Sets ~ GlassLinks ~ GlasSpeak ~ GlassGallery 
 ~  Glassoholic Blog ~ Glassoholic Gallery ~

Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8783
  • Gender: Male
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 10:44:04 PM »
Unfortunately, going on line to the National Archives (at Kew) refines the search down to the No. and date only.  You will need to visit in person and physically cross check the Representations and Regisration Design Nos. to resolve this one ;D - and, of course, you will need to register yourself in order to access these details. :)    My fees are quite modest :24:

Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8783
  • Gender: Male
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 05:30:43 PM »
Whilst at Kew today, I pre-requested Registration data for No. 29106 - but on arrival could access only part of my request.     Apparently, some of the data comes in large size paper format, and these can only be looked at in the map room because of the need for large tables to support the paperwork - and presently the map room is closed (for couple of weeks I beleive).   Thought it might be possible to see whether it was the design or the shape that was being referred to.   The only part of this Registration that I could access was the basic Reg. No. as written in the original journal, and this was unhelpful really.    It simply shows (in columns from the left).........
29106           IV                 9 bc

handwritten of course - and the lower case 'b' is cancelled with a double slash.    The Roman 4 is, of course, the Class, but what the 9 bc means I haven't a clue, unless someone has an idea.        So not very enlightening, but if it is of interest, I will be returning duirng the Christmas hols., and will try again.
I did take a pic. of this page on the digital camera, plus a pic. of the spine of the book.........as thought it might be more accurate and interesting to show the data, rather  than trying to explain in words only.       However, when I checked with the copyright guys at Kew, they got a little touchy and said I couldn't show these on the GMB without  the o.k. from the Copyright big cheese, so that's why you aint seeing my pics. today. :cry:    I will check with the correct guy during the week.
I hope, of course, that people don't object to my butting in on this thread.    If there is an issue, please say so, and I shall desist. :)
   

Offline neilh

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 347
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2010, 09:24:10 PM »
Hi Paul,

Over the last couple of years I've been to Kew and photographed all the Manchester registrations up in the map room. It's a bit of a test of stamina at times as it takes a long time for each pattern book to appear and they can be very heavy! As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this particular item exists in the pattern book as a photo. Most Burtles & Tate registrations were photos from 1885 onwards. The photo was of the flower boat.

What's less clear with these registrations is whether just one item was made, matching the registration, or whether the registration was meant to cover the pattern or shape, in which case there could be several items under the same registration number. Some of the registrations do say "pattern only" or show a range of tableware.

In the case of 29106, it says "design for flower boat", but we can see there were at least two items made under that number. The record so far would have to be a Percival & Vickers registration from 1878 for a dish, which in fact was just one item from a large tableware set of over 50 pieces...

Offline Paul S.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8783
  • Gender: Male
Re: Burtles & Tate reg 29106 - flower boat variations
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 10:29:26 PM »
going to bed now neil, and in London for much of tomorrow, but will comment hopefully before I go out in the morning, as I believe there is more text data to be accessed at Kew, hopefully. :)

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand