Author Topic: Paperweight id please. ID = 2 Paul Ysart and 1 Vasart  (Read 3002 times)

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Offline MHJ01

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Paperweight id please. ID = 2 Paul Ysart and 1 Vasart
« on: September 21, 2010, 04:40:42 PM »
I bought at auction 3 paperweights in one lot, lucky me.   I'd recognised one weight as being by Paul Ysart, the second weight, central butterfly with milliefiore canes around the outside, I was slightly unsure of, but am now pretty certain it's another one by Paul.   But the third weight is a real mystery - don't even think it's Scottish, the quality is not the same, but it's unusual - can you help, please.
Regards
Mary

I'm unable to send the pictures even through they are only small - what else can I do  :huh:


Offline MHJ01

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 06:15:11 PM »

Since my earlier message, I've managed to reduce the size of the files again, so hope you can help

Picture 1 - PY millifiore weight
Picture 2 - PY butterfly weiht?
Pictue 3 and 4 - Total Mystery weig

Many thanks


Offline Derek

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 07:09:51 PM »
Hi

I think they are all scottish - the third one looks to be either Ysart Brothers or Vasart.

Very difficult if not impossible to tell them apart but KevH may be able to give you more info.

Best regards

Derek


Offline tropdevin

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 05:51:49 AM »
***

Hi. It is a run of the mill Vasart weight. I bid on this lot too, but the glass of the butterfly was rather dark for my liking!

Alan
Alan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."  Abraham Lincoln.

The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.
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Offline MHJ01

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 10:13:58 AM »
Hi Alan

Ah ha I wondered who I was bidding against, I was hoping not to pay that price, but c'est la vie, as we say here in France!!!  Thanks for your input.  Having now received the paperweights - the butterfly weight is far more attractive than the photograph portray.   The red adventurine wings are unusual, they kinda glitter when you move the weight around. Although there is no signature cane, I think it may be from Paul's Harland period, but no doubt I'll be corrected if this is wrong.

But, at least the mystery p/w has been identified as Vasart, so that's another mystery put to bed!!!

Regards
Mary


Offline KevinH

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 11:32:02 AM »
Hi Mary,

Firstly, (with my Moderator hat on) since you say, "now that the paperweights have arrived" this would imply that the photos you provided were not your own. Could you please therefore confirm whether the photos are used here with permission. If they are not, then they will have to be removed.

With my "interested collector" hat on, I think the Butterfly weight is more likely to be 1930s period as the overall design matches many others of that type. The use of a garland of large and small canes is not unusual in Paul Ysart's work. But in this example he seems to have had a bit of an off day as most of the canes are rather squashed!

Alan is probably right that the "mystery" weight is Vasart Ltd (1956 - 1964) but it would need a shortwave UV check to be absolutely certain that it was not from the Ysart Brothers years (1946 - 1955).

What are the sizes of the PY weights?
KevinH


Offline MHJ01

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 03:49:06 PM »
Hi Keith

The photographs are all mine - I took them yesterday - my camera takes large pics and I had huge problems trying to make them small enough to post - it took 5 attempts!!!!    That's even better if the butterfly weight is 1930's even if he had an off-day!!!   What about the millifiore weight, it has a rose/light wine coloured base - is this 60/70's or earlier?

When you ask about the size - do you mean across the bottom or over  the dome.    I'll then let you know the sizes.   As for the Vasart weight, I can say that it is much smaller than the other 2 PY weights, which to me are standard size - is there a standard size?!!!

Regards
Mary


Offline KevinH

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 08:24:55 PM »
Thanks for the confirmation about the photos, Mary.

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From the general "crispness" of the look of the millefiori PY weight, it could be from any of the (late) 50s, 60s or 70s periods! A photo of the base, at a slight angle, might help but it would really need a uv test with both longwave and shortwave bulbs to be sure.

If you have a longwave bulb ("blacklight") and it gives a definite green fluorescence in the dome then the weight is very probably pre-Caithness years. If the fluorescence is a "watery straw" colour or perhaps look like a "reddish green" then it is likely to be Caithness period. If there is no obvious fluoresence colour or it appears to be a "dusty pink" or a "dark straw" colour, then the Harland years are most likely.

But sometimes it is hard to say whether a non-green fluorescence colour ties in with the "rule of thumb" and therefore longwave uv alone cannot separate Caithness items from Harland pieces. That's where shortwave uv comes in - as, to the best of my knowledge so far, all of Paul Ysart's Caithness period weights, show as Blue under shortwave uv and no other period does that.

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For size of paperweights, most of us are interested in the diameter at the widest point and the height.

Even within a given maker, "standard" sizes can vary. Many of Paul Ysart's weights were a "standard" 3 1/4 inch diameter but often "only" 3 inch. Others regular sizes were 2 1/2 inch, 2 5/8 inch, 2 3/4 inch or 2 7/8 inch. In the 30s, and maybe 40s, he made several magnum sized weights ranging from 3 1/2 inch to over 5 inch diameter.
KevinH


Offline KevinH

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Re: Help wanted with Paperweight identification please
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 11:30:44 PM »
The photos below are added on behalf of Mary and these show the bases of the two Paul Ysart weights.

The one with the mottled purple ground is the millefiori weight and this is 3 inch diameter & 2 inch height. Initially, I felt that the setting, style and crispness of the millefiori canes in this weight might indicate a later date, maybe late 50s Moncrieff or Caithness (60s) or Harland (70s). However the large and rough-looking pontil scar would suggest to most people the 1930s period. This base finsihing has surprised me and I am still uncertain about whether this weight is pre- or post-war, but I no longer think it is later than mid-50s.

The blue ground one is the Garlanded Butterfly which is 3 inch diameter & 2 1/4 inch height. This has a smaller pontil scar and looks to be quite tidy. I used to think this indicated a 50s dating, but I have since seen a variety of small pontil scars on PY weights from all of his main periods of making! All things considered I think this is a 1930s period weight.

Some people have said that it is possible to date Paul Ysart weights to pre- or post-war by longwave uv reaction, saying that a "bright green" is pre-war and a darker green is post-war. I have not yet be able to confirm this, but it might be true. However, in a controlled photographic test using almost all of my own PY weights, I found a variety of shades of green - not just "bright" or "dark", so I am still (on occasion) investigating this aspect.
KevinH


Offline SophieB

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Re: Paperweight id please. ID = 2 Paul Ysart and 1 Vasart
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 03:37:47 PM »
Hi Kevin,

I viewed these weights before the auction and I thought that the Ysart butterfly had the wholemark of an early weight because of the darkish glass (I always thought the darkish glass indicated a production of the 1930s - Is this right?).

With regard to the other one, I thought that it was a later weight. I understand that the pontil scar is unusual for the 60/70s but I own two miniature fish weights from the Harland period (with an H cane) which have a pontil scar each. So not all weights were finished in the usual clean manner.

SophieB

 



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