Author Topic: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?  (Read 1429 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 10:48:26 PM »
My amethyst one is 15.7cm and my turquoise one is 15.4.  I had another which I gave to a friend which was also turquoise and was certainly bigger than the one I have left, I believe also around 15.7cm.  I remember at the time I bought this one wondering why it seemed slightly smaller  :-\

m


Offline glassobsessed

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 11:17:33 PM »
According to Marcus Newhall in Sklo Union Art Before Industry (page 135) this ashtray probably had two moulds. One would have been used at a second factory to help in periods of high demand.

This might account for minor variations in size. There may also be a variation due to the size of the initial gob of hot glass that was cut and dropped into the mould. Not sure about that though, don't know enough about the production process.

John


Offline Frank

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 04:16:21 PM »
This item is also Hermanova Hut 1961 pattern 20034 according to the Newhall database. However there is no reference given to the source of that attribution nor the sizes given in the database. The Rosice 1983 catalogue gives 15cm as the ONLY size. In the Newhall page  gives a date of 1959 in the caption (database gives an reference to the Gottwaldov catalogue 1972... (reviewed below). Clearly the database is incorrect for 983 based on the data provided with the book and is giving different data to the text in the book as well as the image caption. As the book states this to be one of Maturas most popular designs it is remarkably inconsistent and leaves only confusion for the collector.

Summary of Newhall data:
Book - Rosice 983 no date given but speculates on 1961, size 17cm.
Database states 2 sizes 120 and 170mm date 1962. (Is the 1962 just speculation as suggested by the text?)
Book Hermanova Hut 20034 caption states 1959 tex and database state 1961.
Compounding lack of source the database uses two different angle images of the same piece to illustrate both 983 20034... clearly one is WRONG.

On Jindrich's site the Adolf Matura Sklo Union catalogue shows this as 983 Libochovice  :huh: and a size of 12cm.... The Gottwaldov catalogue (1972) gives the size as 15cm and catalogue code 983/170 not that the size convention of this coding is wrong and should be 150 although the 1983 catalogue actually notates 983/15cm. This catalogue also gives a Rosice date of 1961

Summary of original sources.

Sizes 12cm and 15cm, no mention of 17cm. Rosice apparently only listing 15cm in 1983 only design date being 1961.

Libochovice mention is certainly an error and the /170 a mistype! The 12cm could be a typing error too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My view
The 20034 attribution may be referenced in some other source such as CGR still to be determined... until such time this remains a shaky attribution and without other evidence it would seem that only one size was produced from 1961 at Rosice as pattern 983.
Frank A.
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Offline Anik R

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2011, 06:35:56 PM »
Hi Frank,

The Hermanova 20034 attribution comes from the CGR 1962/8...  the first time I believe the Matura ashtray appears in the periodical.

In subsequent editions, the Matura ashtray is referred to as 983/15cm Moravia-Rosice (CGR 1963/7) then 983/15cm Rosice (CGR 1963/12, 1965/3, 1970/3...).  Always 15cm.

By the way, Mark Hill (Hi Sklo Lo Sklo) attributes the ashtray to Libochovice 983, and also (wrongly) gives 17cm as the diameter.

My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Frank

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2011, 08:23:44 PM »
Thank Anik, just reviewed a few of those..

1962/8 983/15 cm Rosice
1963/7 20034 1961 no size given Hermanova
1963/12  983/15 cm Rosice

Interesting it got shown so often in CGR.

So I can now adjust my view:

1961 at Rosice as pattern 983 size 15cm and 20034 Hermanova Hut, production size unknown but probably 15cm.

With one reservation - the image with 20034 attribution is the same as used for Rosice attribution! Final proof would be a Hermanova Hut catalogue illustration and size data.
Frank A.
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Offline Anik R

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2011, 08:34:52 PM »
Ah, I've misread my scribbles...  you're right -- the first time the Matura ashtray appreared in the CGR, it was attributed to Rosice.  The second time it appeared, it was Hermanova (with no size).  All the other times, Rosice, 15cm.

 :ho:  Sorry for getting the information messed up.  Bad day.
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Frank

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2011, 08:39:21 PM »
No matter, always helps when two or more people check data and cross reference as it seems both of the books have gotten things a little bit wrong!
Frank A.
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Offline MarkHill

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 09:31:28 AM »
Hi,
Frank kindly told me about this thread. I have searched back through my original records taken at the photographic shoot and found that the ashtray shown in my book Hi Sklo Lo Sklo measured very close to 15.5cm in diameter. Given a fabric tape measure was being used, rather than calipers, it may well be 15cm.
Mea culpa, the correct measurement will appear on the new errata sheet and any subsequent editions.
Best,
Mark
Text and images Mark Hill
www.markhillpublishing.com


Offline Anik R

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Re: Matura 983 ashtray for Libochovice -- but funny size?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2011, 01:23:02 PM »
Thank you, Mark.  :)
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


 

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