Topic: Webb Corbett back stamp date guide.

[Paul S.]

Not often that a 'back stamp' can narrow down a manufacturing date as close as this, so thought I would share with all, as I hadn't been aware of this previously.    Small sherry or liqueur perhaps, and although not easy to read the full mark, it actually says (in circular form)..........Webb Corbett England  ...with a capital 'S' in the centre.    Using my copy of 'British Glass between the wars (edited by Roger Dodsworth), the 'S' indicates manufacture in Stourbridge between 1947 and 1949 - so really quite a narrow range, and useful for dating reasonably accurately.   Apparently a letter 'B' was used similarly, to indicate Tutbury, for the same period.

[Bernard C]

Paul — I've been certain for a decade or more that there is something wrong with Dodsworth's analysis of Webb Corbett marks.   It doesn't always work.   There are two explanations.   The first is that he was using too small a sample — I've had at least two variants through my hands that he didn't include in his analysis.   The second is the natural tendency of glass authors to drift towards a neat, Stanley Gibbons-like solution, by assuming that an earlier stamp was destroyed when a new stamp started in use.   It might have happened that way, but much more likely was that it went on the shelf with all the other junk, just in case, or even continued in use.   Also, because a significant proportion of trade buyers didn't like marks, I suspect that a lot of glass wasn't marked until picked from stock, possibly years after it was made — further muddling the evidence available to us today.

I've never seen a general marks guide supported by evidence.   They all say much the same, so are we in the realm of so many saying the same so it must be true?   Or, more likely, if one got something wrong, then they all have?

I prefer to treat marks analysis date ranges as general guides, nothing more, and look for other evidence to back my conclusions.   It's safer that way.

Bernard C. 

[Frank]

Hartmann is generally well referenced. For Webb Corbett it gives as sources: Manley, 1949 Brit Glass Industry directory, Newman, Hajdamach.

Dating 5 marks: from 1897, 1930-47, about 1930 , 1947-65, about 1970.

How reliable the sources are is another questions and of course all Bernard's remarks hold true. Dates of introduction can best be assumed if they were registered as trade-marks as the first registration should include a statement on how long the mark has been in use.

A comprehensive (47) record of the labels and markings since 1868 of John Moncrieff dated from original company documents is shown here and this allows a lot of information on their products, particularly when some of the products were introduced. Much of which can be corroborated through other sources. Even more useful were the documents of the dispute with Corning over the Monax name and of course if they can ever be found those that sorted out the issue over Pyrex.

But how long such marks were used is another matter entirely. Not to mention the different techniques used to apply then, that can further help in dating.

[nigel benson]

Hi,

I think Frank's illustration from Hartmann, pointing out the sources used for Webb Corbett, illustrates the points Bernard made.

For instance, Manley is now known to have lots of inaccuracies, although when published his book was pretty well all of the infomation available and therefore accepted. 1949 Brit Glass Industry directory - fine if it was a whole series of yearly books giving the mark used on a yearly basis (like Pottery and Glass Trade Gazette Review Directory), but otherwise, just a snapshot. So again, despite the magnitude of Hartmann's task, or possibly because of it, there are likely to be inaccuracies.

Realistically, much is likely to be based on previous publications, however when someone  (like Frank with Monart and other Ysart production) researches the detail nowadays, often the corrections and additions are made. This can also happen through enthusiatics doing research in their own collecting subject and passing on the information.

Possibly the rule of thumb might be to make the assumptions that Bernard has outlined, but accept new parameters when a specialist book on a partcular subject is published - and compare the old information with the new.

Nigel

[chopin-liszt]

I thought this thread might be a suitable place to impart a tiny bit of info. about positioning of the marks.

I found a Clyne Farquarson design cocktail jug, I bought it from knowing the design - but eventually I found the Webb Corbett mark positioned on the bottom of the handle.