Topic: Burtles Tate Swan Or Not?

[rwinegar]

I recently bought a pair of these blue opalescent swans.  My aim is to resell them.  But I first need to be sure of identification.  I think they are Burtles Tate.  But they do not contain any registry marks.  In my research all the Burtles Tate swans I found do have registry marks.  I thought I would turn to the experts here.  The bottoms on both pieces have been slightly ground - I assume from the factory to sit level.

Measures 3.5 inches high X 4.25 inches long X 3 inches wide.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan2.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan1.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan9.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan3.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan7.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/rwinegar/BurtlesTateBlueOpalSwan10.jpg

Thanks for any help you are able to provide.

[chopin-liszt]

Hi and welcome.  :hi:
It looks right to me, but this is not my area - there will be somebody along soon who will confirm it, or put me right if I'm wrong.

[neilh]

If there is no registration mark I suspect it's not Burtles & Tate

A while ago, Roy, who posts here under mhgcgolfclub sent me this note:

"I was just looking through the Burtles and Tate section of your web site and you have 2 pictures of Swans, the 2nd picture of the single swan looks very very similar to me of a later swan made by the Cambridge glass company of the USA, I once bought a pair of swans which looked very much like Burtles although they were a slightly strange colour of blue very much like the one in your picture,they were not signed, just something you may like to check out"

That sounds like a pretty good description of your swan!

Incidentally the swan which Roy was referring to on my website did in fact turn out to be Burtles & Tate as the owner was able to find a reg number on it.

Some swan pictures on this page:
http://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/burtles-tate-designs-by-date/burtles-tate-1885

I'll have to add a note about these off-blue swans... they do look very similar. From your photos compared to the real B&T I would say that the angle on the neck of the swan is not as acute as the real thing.

[pamela]

Hi and welcome to GMB! Very good photos BTW  :hiclp:

Very tricky and difficult to judge - here's another - slightly different, I'd say:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370273112817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[rwinegar]

Thanks for that information.

I have looked at many Cambridge swans.  They no more resemble Burtles Tate swans than they do a streetcar.  The link you provided shows a Burtles Tate swan of Jan 1885, design 20972.  The feather detail is exactly the same as the blue swan I am questioning.

I guess the real question is whether Burtles Tate ever manufactured it's swans without the registry marks. 

[rwinegar]

Hi and welcome to GMB! Very good photos BTW  :hiclp:

Very tricky and difficult to judge - here's another - slightly different, I'd say:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370273112817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Thanks Pamela.

Actually I saw that same pic before posting here.  Other than the registry mark, it appears to be identical to my blue ones.

[neilh]

Hmm, having just googled to look at some Cambridge glass swans, I see what you mean!

[chopin-liszt]

As I don't know what they look like either, I searched as well - the Cambridge ones have back feet sticking out, and the neck seems to curve so that the beak is on the beast's neck. Quite different to the B&T ones.
Now I need to do a search to find out what a "streetcar" looks like.........

[Sid]

Hello

Given your location (USA), it is far more likely that you have an example from Dugan/Diamond glass, Imperial, Fenton or some other US company that have made versions of these swans since the early 1900s to date.

Here is a search on ebay that pulls up several examples similar to yours:

http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

Some are signed by Fenton or labeled by Imperial.

[rwinegar]

Hello

Given your location (USA), it is far more likely that you have an example from Dugan/Diamond glass, Imperial, Fenton or some other US company that have made versions of these swans since the early 1900s to date.

Here is a search on ebay that pulls up several examples similar to yours:

http://pottery-glass.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=swan+%28fenton%2Cdugan%2Cnorthwood%2Cimperial%2Cdiamond%29&_sacat=50693&_odkw=swan&_osacat=50693&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

Some are signed by Fenton or labeled by Imperial.

You're joking right?  lI have been collecting Fenton, Dugan, & Imperial swans for more than 25 years.  I have more than 250 in my collection.  This swan is none of those.  Hard to believe that anyone can suggest that it might be.