Author Topic: Evidence this is Italian after all?  (Read 1350 times)

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Offline David555

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« on: January 05, 2006, 11:57:16 PM »
This vase is by Seguso according to website

Archimede Seguso vase

I was scoffed at nay pelted when I suggested this vase of mine may be Italian. A very similar form as the above vase and the same height of 15cm, also it is sommerso triple cased (blue/yellow)

my vase (also added to board)

I am not suggesting a link but any thoughts on my vase not just being a bit of 1970s Czech

Adam P
David is my Father's name, 555 is the number of man ('The Pixies'), but please call me ADAM P.


Offline chuggy

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 09:58:32 AM »
The vendor is obviously seeing something in the literature quoted that I'm not. I am totally convinced this is not a Seguso vase. The twists in the glass and the flat top are all wrong. I think I know what he is comparing it with, but his glasses are very rose tinted. I had one of the Seguso vases and the whole look and feel is so different.
Paul
There is no distance on earth as far away as yesterday.


Offline taylog1

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 08:28:39 PM »
This may, or may not, help, even if only to provide some comparisons.

(http://tinypic.com/jsgbdh.jpg)
From an auction last month, but I can't remember which !
Described as:
Überschrift Seguso Vetri d´Arte
Titel Vase, um 1970
Beschreibung Schlanke, hochovale Form, diagonal geführte Spiralrippen. H. 17,5 cm. Roséfarben getöntes Glas.  

(http://tinypic.com/jsgdtz.jpg)
A piece I bought on Ebay in 2004, 19.5 cm high described "in the typical style of Seguso" (the lines are just an effect of the camera).

taylog1


Offline David555

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2006, 12:45:14 AM »
Thanks Taylog1

I think the auction I linked to sold the pink vase you show as comparison with your own - it was estimated at $360.00 - Chapter: Seguso Vetri d'Arte.

Seguso Vetri d'Arte Vase

It's a similar situation to mine in that you have the same form of the same height in a different colourway.

In fact you’re blue and green/yellow sommerso vase (you compare to the pink auctioned one) are very similar to my more cylindrical vase in colour terms, also as a variation on the form.

Interesting that the seller of your vase stated "in the typical style of Seguso", I would say your vase and mine could be described in shape at least as well known Seguso shapes http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib4a.htm see item 7527 - different colour and shorter but same idea.

If not Seguso, I am really veering toward Murano for my vase. The twisted moulding hides a very subtle sommerso effect - not easy to photo but it is Italian in quality - the ware to the flat base is extensive showing a lot of age ware.

This is despite the fact I have a fair few very good Murano glass books, I mean books from the 1960s showing a lot of  Seguso, none of them have these twisted vases in them. That intrigues me a little what with websites attributing the shape to ’A. Seguso’ or ‘Seguso Vetri d'Arte’.


Thanks for your input

Adam P
David is my Father's name, 555 is the number of man ('The Pixies'), but please call me ADAM P.


Offline taylog1

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2006, 08:15:05 AM »
I have always assumed that they were Murano and not Czech, but I'll have to look through my books to find out why !

Of course you're right re the auction.

By the way, did you spot that yours, and the ones you have linked to have spirals going NE - SW, whereas the two I've included go NW - SE, left and right handed blowers ?

’A. Seguso’ or ‘Seguso Vetri d'Arte’
There's a good description in "20th Century Factory Glass" re the difference, to summarise:

Archimede Seguso, his father Antonio Seguso, Napoleone Barovier and Luigi Olimpio Ferro set up "Artistica Vetreria e Soffieria Barovier Seguso e Ferro" in 1933, which from 1937 operated as "Seguso Vetri d'Arte".

In 1946 Archimede Seguso set up his own factory, "Vetreria Archimede Seguso".

So Seguso could I guess refer to either Seguso Vetri d'arte or his work at Vetreria Archimede Seguso ?

There's also meant to be published this month "Seguso Vetri D'arte: Complete Catalogue (since 1933) - by Mark Heiremans", which might help.

Most sites are showing it at £195, these guys seem to think it will be closer to £65 (apologies for the horrendous string, but only showing on Google cache).
 http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:crIyvIu2bOcJ:www.studiobookshop.co.uk/+Seguso+Vetri+D%27Arte:+Complete+Catalogue+Since+1933&hl=en

taylog1


Offline Anne

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2006, 12:32:38 PM »
Quote
By the way, did you spot that yours, and the ones you have linked to have spirals going NE - SW, whereas the two I've included go NW - SE, left and right handed blowers ?


I've asked about the direction of spirals before - in regard to a decanter I have with the spirals going to opposite way to all others I've seen - and wondered if left-handed- and right-handedness was the reason, but I don't think anything conclusive came out of the discussion. It's a question we need to aim at working glassblowers I guess.


Offline paradisetrader

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2006, 09:13:32 PM »
Interesting thread Guys

Adam
There's nothing wrong with 70s Czech necessarily !!!

Chuggy
What should the rim be like for the ones you're refering to ?
Do your comments also apply to the items posted by Gareth (Taylog) ?
(which seem to have more rounded rims)

Segueso, Seguso, Seguso
There are 3 possibilites here:
Seguso Vetri d'Arte : Designer unknown (1937-73, 1976-92)
Archemede Sesguso for Seguso Vetri d'Arte (1933-42)
Vetreria Archimeded Seguso (1946/7 -99)

I have a 15cm / 6" vase in yellow which is not quite a spiral like these and has avery rounded rims and a very handworked "feel". I bought it only recently because I like yellow glass  :oops: so had not yet begun to investigate it's ID and was rather stumpted by it except that it has a wonderful "feel". I'll do a pic.
Pete


Offline David555

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Evidence this is Italian after all?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2006, 05:13:25 AM »
A very good point Peter

As you know I am a great enthusiast of 50s - 70s Czech glass. I have a large collection some of which GMB has helped me to ID - especially Marcus.

Quote
not just being a bit of 1970s Czech
I am not just saying this, but in that post I meant to delete the 'not just'

All glass is created equal (ish) it's just the market that creates a false perception of what is more desirable - a money thing I think :roll:

My vase is beautiful what ever it's origin

Thanks for the reminder Peter


In one of my books 'Vetri Di Murano 1967' by C Bestetti (1900s to 1967 - mostly 50s & 60s), I don't get my exact shape (in fact I get the some extremely unusual shapes!). I do get some good sommerso combination indicators. Seguso Vetri d'Arte favoured green/yellow & green/blue combinations, there is some written info about these being 'earth or element colours' - there is a range called 'vasi in vetro verde terra e giallo' similar colours to my piece but different shape - designer not given for these (Poli?) the blue and purple vases are Poli, in fact he does like his primary colours across a broad range of companies in this book so I don’t think it’s him, but there are a fair few other designers working at this time for Seguso (1940’s – 70s).

Archimede Seguso seems to favour matt pink, corroded glass and clear glass forms with veins in this book. I think when he formed his own company in 1947 he was much more experimental than Seguso Vetri d'Arte. I am sure that much Seguso Vetri d'Arte of the 60s is wrongly attributed to him, I will concede his company made the less high art pieces you tend to get in books. He had a nice range in bowls with lobed sides and a lot of aventurine, but you don't see a lot of sommerso.

Ref my vase being by Archimede Seguso while at Seguso Vetri d'Arte, my feelings are the form is too modern, most sites and sources (right or wrong attribution) have these type of forms starting around the mid 1950s - he had left by then.

Seguso Vetri d'Arte seem to come out favourite in my mind - that is if it is any of the Seguso factories or people, I mean the closet shape and colour combination I have found so far in my books is 'Luciano Gaspari' for 'Salviati' c1965 :roll:  :shock:

Not much help I know, but I am somewhat of a novice here and learning all the time.

Adam P
David is my Father's name, 555 is the number of man ('The Pixies'), but please call me ADAM P.


 

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