Topic: Deep intaglio engraving--Scandanavian or Bohemian?

[albglass]

I was so sure this vase was Bohemian, because of the shape of the vase, because it was unsigned, and because the deep intaglio engraving is within a medallion.  But then another glass collector said he thought the engraving was Scandanavian, so now I'm not sure at all.  There is a large polished pontil (as shown) on a highly polished and edge faceted base, top, and sides.  It's 8" tall, quite heavy, and "tings" when struck (not the bell tone of lead crystal, but much closer to the sound than the dull thunk of most glass) if this is useful information. Can any of you tell whether this is indeed, a Scandanavian vase?

[Ivo]

Or German, or Hungarian - or even English.

[albglass]

Ivo--you should know!  This tells me that none of the characteristics of this vase is definitive enough to determine country of origin.  Thanks much for the information.

[chopin-liszt]

It looks to me as if the base is completely polished flat - there is no pontil mark at all!

[Ivo]

based on the style of engraving and not looking at the blank, I'd guess it was influenced by Von Eiff/ Ortlieb or anyone of that school. The sweet angelic touch points at 50s/ 60s. But I could be 180 degrees off. 

[albglass]

I guess the picture of the pontil is a bit deceiving--the shiny area in the photo is the pontil itself--quite large at 2.25" across.  If you look closely, the immediate area around the pontil is narrower at one side than the other, as the pontil is not perfectly centered.  The base is 3" wide and is perfectly flat around the concave pontil.  Then the edge is cut out at a 45 degree angle in 12 sections, cut back at close to the same angle, but further in, and then rises to the 12 panels of the vase body.  Except that on the front of the vase, the panels are interrupted by the large oval medallion where the engraving has been done.  Hope this clears up the question of the pontil, thanks!

[chopin-liszt]

Not really,  :spls: it still looks like a completely polished flat base. It does not matter that there are "sides" around it - that's just because the thing rises up from the base.
There is no evidence of the use of the pontil (the iron rod, which leaves a mark or scar on the base, which is then sometimes treated in different ways to disguise it) remaining.

[albglass]

Darn, guess I'll have to try for another closeup picture with the base tilted so you can see the concave circular area within the flat base which is the polished pontil.  There really is a very large polished pontil in the center of the flat base, it's just that the camera doesn't pick it up well because the pontil is so highly polished it blends in with the surrounding base.  These clear glass pictures are quite a challenge for a poor photographer. I'll try a different shot.

[chopin-liszt]

Tipping the vase at a slight angle, so that you catch edge of the concave dip might help - but looking at the top picture, I can sort of imagine it.

I was wondering if the engraver simply used an old bit of glass to engrave on. The style of the vase seems completely incongruous with the style of engraving.
Or (complete speculation here) given how far advanced in style and design the Czechs were, could it perhpas be of Czech origin that such a modern-looking image has been found on an older-style vase?

(albglass - just for clarification of glass terminology, a pontil is the iron rod the hot glass is held on while it is being worked on. A pontil mark or scar is what you find on a bit of glass. I may get shushed, I go on and on about this, 'cos it drives me absolutely nuts...... but I think I'm starting to drive others nuts by going on about it. )

[glassobsessed]

I think I'm starting to drive others nuts by going on about it. )

Someone has to bang the drum Sue and it's great spectator sport too.... :wsh:

John