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Author Topic: Decanter ish thing with bulges/ribs, amber glass trails/drips sold as Bohemian  (Read 3908 times)

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Offline KevinH

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... the thoughts from the V&A was that Gray Stan usually worked with high lead-glass and that the decanter didn't appear to be this - sorry I really can't tell whether it is or isn't ...
If you can get access to a short wave UV lamp, you can check if the glass glows blue or not. So far, all items I have checked that way, that are known to be lead-based have glowed blue. That includes my one example of Gray-Stan, a green vase shading from almost opaque to virtually clear.
KevinH


Offline flying free

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Kevin is that different to a UV tube light?  sorry, I'm not hugely up on electrical type things  :-[
m


Offline Frank

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I think the patent would have run out in 1930 and its being enforced would depend on the rigour of the owning company... but assuming it was then post 1930. Which would tie in with wider use of cadmium although that could have been used earlier in the glass industry.

The trailed piece of Graystan shown here http://www.ysartglass.com/Otherglass/Graystan.htm was beautifully executed but far from immaculate. Vut it is too long since I handle Graystan in any quantity to pass judgement but there do seem to be plenty of indicators for that as a time frame... as to of course post 1905. Assuming it is English then there is a high likelihood of something similar showing up in their reserve collection... although some of the reserve attributions are plain wrong. Do they finally have someone interested in glass there now? I don't buy the lead crystal story though - there was supposed to have been a lot of experimentation and tinkering with formulas... I would love to see the manuscript Hadjamach mentions.

Another clue on your piece is that the handle was made bottom up and all the Graystan I've seen with handles was top down.
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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Frank thank you.  So, if I have understood correctly, thus far we could be looking  at:
- 30's or later given that
a) cadmium was in wider use then and
b) assuming the patent having not been renewed -(and given H Wilkinson, if he is the same one and assuming he was at Thomas Webb and Son in 1905, moved companies in 1921, I suppose it could be likely the patent may not have been renewed).  I will have a check to see if I can find out where he was in 1905 and whether it was Thomas Webb and Son  and
 c) It appears from the pictures in Charles Hajdamach's 20th Century British Glass, page 93 and 94, that Gray Stan were using the same or similar technique on some of their items, therefore it could be assumed for arguments sake (and not interrogating whether the process they used was exactly the same) that the patent had not been renewed. HOwever I am not sure what date these pieces are from.  They could be prior to 1930 which would indicate that either she used the technique whilst it was still patented or, it's a similar effect but different technique.

However, we're probably not looking at  Gray Stan given the pontil mark generally doesn't seem to be right (techniques of making this particular item notwithstanding) and the handle is applied bottom up which is not how Gray Stan applied the handles - there are 9 different pictures of Gray Stan items with handles in 20th Century British Glass CH, and all of them have handles applied top down.  (Question though...  all these items have fairly 'straight' sides in line with where the handle starts at the top, whereas applying a top down handle onto my decanter vase would be more difficult as the sides bulge out so far widthways from where the handle needs to start at the neck. But on balance of probability probably not them)

Or we could be looking at:
- 1905 to 1930, given that cadmium was in use then and that this technique was patented in 1905 and the patent would have run to 1930 before needing renewal.  So would this mean then, if it fell in that time frame, that it could fall under the Thomas Webb umbrella (Where  H Wilkinson may have been working at the time it was patented according to that info on the Tudor Crystal site) or  The Stourbridge Glass Co Ltd given that he moved there in 1921 (in CH's book it says that H Wilkinson patented that technique, so presumably he took the patent with him?).
If we are looking at, say,  1930's and the patent was renewed, I assume that could mean the patent would be with The Stourbridge Glass company if he were still there.  
But, again, I'm not sure this is crystal.  If it isn't, does that negate Thomas Webb and Sons and The Stourbridge Glass Co Ltd?
More searching required I think ;D
m


Offline flying free

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The help I received from the V&A was from Reino Liefkes, Senior Curator Ceramics and Glass Collection and who kindly responded again to my further query about Gray Stan and my musings about the potential country of origin of this vase.
With regards Gray Stan, I only have two pieces both from different ranges (the candlestick cloudy, the vase trailed)  so I have pretty much no idea on whether or not my decanter could have come from the same place to be honest.
m


Offline Frank

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Might be worth trawling some of the better glass sites for examples of the 'dotting' technique... Killian etc.
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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aha...I have already done that, Glaskilian was one of my first ports of call as it always is  :) but I shall have another look through again later today.  Thank you.
m


Offline flying free

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I've been to the library this morning and borrowed Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914.
On page 287 there is a bowl (4 3/4"diameter 2 1/4"high) that kind of curves into the base and at the top flares out at the rim - bit like a wide U shape but with curves out at the top if you can imagine - described as ' clear glass bowl with rows of turquoise beads formed by the method outlined by H.Wilkinson in his patent specification of 1905. Stourbridge early 20th century'.   It has 12 ribs.  My decanter does as well.  It reminds me a lot of my decanter - more so than the Graystan pieces which all seem to have more ribs, apart from one piece I have seen.   I think my decanter dates from earlier than the 30's ....I could be wrong  ;D but I just think it does.
m


Offline rosieposie

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Oh m,   :X:
After all this time, wouldn't it be wonderful to know for sure? 
I still look for your decanter on my nightly wanderings through the 'glass web'!!
Rosie.

When all's said and done, there's nothing left to say or do.  Roger McGough.


Offline flying free

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Rosie, thank you  :) I look out for it or similar all the time too....but I just have that feeling this one will never be id'd  ;D
m

 

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