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Author Topic: Decanter ish thing with bulges/ribs, amber glass trails/drips sold as Bohemian  (Read 4584 times)

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Offline flying free

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Frank I'm confused by your post  :-\
I just posted the flask because it has a decor done in the same way as my decanter.  Your links go to two jugs that don't have the same decoration as the decanter.  Did you mean to put this on the Nailsea thread?  :)
m


Offline Frank

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Yes, I was just in there and wondered where it had gone to  :-[
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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 ;D -
m


Offline flying free

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The annual bump  :)
I've been wondering if this might have originated from Gordiola glass.  It's not a colour I've seen them use, it's not amber, it's orange and clear.  It's also not something I've seen anywhere before.
However looking at it again this evening, I observed a couple of things:
- The neck and rim are completely handformed and have been applied separately to the vase.  It's been neatly done but it's what might have been described as 'half post' (I know that's not a correct description but for the sake of using one that others might understand).
- The base is indented as in antique glass and it has a snapped off pontil mark.
- The glass is full of tiny bubbles and stones
To all intents and purposes it looks older than the 1930's to me.
Gordiola used a ribbed shape mould to blow those vases with the spouts and they have indented bases as well as snapped off pontil marks with the ring left like this one I think iirc?

Anyway, I've added some clearer pictures now.
Thanks for any more thoughts or leads
m



Offline flying free

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adding to my post above.
Actually I'm not at all sure about the Gordiola thing now.
I've just got my plate down to compare and the glass is clear on the plate no bubbles or stones or anything, completely different to the decanter.  Its also a completely different colour but the pic I've added does show that the vase is orange, not amber at all.
I've also been trawling pictures of the museum Gordiola pieces etc and cannot find any that use this colour - hmmmm :-\
I've added a pic of the pontil mark on the decanter and it is different to the plate as well.  But then they are different sizes and I've not seen a very clear pic of the pontil mark of one of the vases with spouts to be honest.
m


Offline rosieposie

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I still know nothing about decanters,  but think this is beautiful,  did at the start of this thread & still do. :)
Rosie.

When all's said and done, there's nothing left to say or do.  Roger McGough.


Offline flying free

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This is the annual bump :)
And thanks Rosie.

So far what I have appears to indicate a fairly earlish age to the decanter - my instinct says earlier than the 1930s (but I could be wrong):

- The glass to me looks quite old,
-  It has an indented base and a snapped off pontil mark
- The dot technique was patented by H Wilkinson in 1905.  CH British Glass 1800-1914 shows a bowl with 12 ribs with the same dot technique and references H Wilkinson's patent so appears to be indicating it dates to around 1905 and before 1914 if you take the date of the book (1800-1914) as a reference.

(Caveat - But technique also appears to have been used by other makers - evidence shown previously such as Regenhütte around that period,  and in a link to an opaque glass flask in the National Trust collection undated but looks quite old, and this technique was also used definitely by Graystan in the 20s/30s, and I believe has been used more recently than the 1930s)

So another angle I been exploring goes back to Christine's mention of Cadmium and also the fact of the curious definitely orange colour of the glass.

Could the orange glass in this vase be created by a combination of cadmium sulphide and selenium? 
If that is the case then could it be that this must (might?) date to after 1892 when Franz Welz patented the orange coloured glass?

Ok that doesn't help be define the timeframe exactly, nor does it help on country or maker, but does at least give an earliest possible date for the piece.

Basically, I suppose I'm wondering if it is a sort of 'experimental' piece using a new glass colour and a 'new' dotting technique - which might pin it down to around 1900 (1905) for date?

I have absolutely no idea what country this might have originated from except possibly German for some reason. 
m






Offline Ivo

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Selenium puts after the 1920s, not before. I am still convinced the piece is Romanian and of quite recent date - I have seen these around and handled them.
Ivo
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Offline flying free

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Ivo use of selenium in the mix patented by Franz Welz 1892 - patent here (unless I have misunderstood this):

http://www.google.com/patents/US479689

'I am still convinced the piece is Romanian and of quite recent date - I have seen these around and handled them.'  :o really?  you have not mentioned this before.  Please tell me more, I am quite willing to believe this as the decanter has very little wear on the base at all.  Does that tie in with the use of Cadmium sulphide age wise?
And blimey ... all that research  ;D
m


Offline Ivo

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I have seen this bottle on antique marketS on three different occasions. One dealer told me he thought it was from Romania which I am willing to believe. Alternative is of course Regenhütte.
The Selenium red and Cadmium and sulphur yellow is a 'strike' colour which is produced on reheating - which the Welz patent excludes. I would place this colour much later, more in the Frederick Carder era. But will anyone who really understands the difference between these two processes please explain?
Ivo
► BLUE HENRY ◄
 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.

 



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