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Author Topic: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?  (Read 1587 times)

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Offline jonchellycain

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
thanks Christine, felt a touch guilty at the time although the lady was probably on in her late 40's nicely dressed with a fairly new BMW, so didnt feel that bad  ;D, dumbfounded would have been closer to the truth.
Jon is a coin collector so he was rather impressed by my little find, although he still said i have to find a 1933 penny before he will marry me  ::)
michelle

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Offline Anik R

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 07:23:58 PM »
Jon is a coin collector so he was rather impressed by my little find, although he still said i have to find a 1933 penny before he will marry me  ::)

Michelle, can it be a Canadian penny or an Australian 1933 penny?  Or was he a tad more specific?  ::)

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Offline jonchellycain

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 07:43:59 PM »
has to be an English one Anik, they are rarer than hens teeth i think they are valued at upwards of £80,000.
http://www.24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=1933penny.html
michelle

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Offline oldglassman

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2011, 09:47:00 AM »
hello Michelle  -  nice find, and like Chris I will offer some thoughts by thinking out loud, since I'm certainly no expert ;D.
No folded foot  -  which although doesn't automatically take it out of the C18, is more inclined to make it early C19 (I would suggest)  -  Apparently, folded feet were created initially to assist with strengthening pieces made from soda glass  -  and when lead glass became more the norm, the fold was dispensed with.      Looking at this foot style I'd plump for 'domed and terraced'.   The ground/polished pontil mark was, I believe, a late C18 onwards characteristic, necessitated by the fact that feet became less domed, and therefore the snapped/rougth pontil mark needed to be 'ground away to avoid make the glass uneven when standing.
I believe that the bulge at the base of the bowl is described as a 'merese' - and below that is a single bladed knop, and the bowl is, I suggest, a 'flute' shape.   Because of these 'knops', I suggest that the method of making the glass is not 'drawn' - and that instead, this example has been made in at least two parts.   I would really hesitate to date this glass, but if really pushed would go more for the 1820 - 1830 period (still keeps you just Georgian).........however, the fact that the foot is wider than the bowl, is, in itself, an indicator of an earlier period  -  so that's another idea down the drain  -  and remember to look at the colour of the glass  -  is it greenish/grey, or quite white ish.   Try shining the UV torch at the piece and see if you pick up any manganese glow.     Having said all the above, we always have to remember that the Victorians were very good at copying every style ever made.   

HI ,   sorry !!!!   but a few things i feel need to be corrected here ,
   The folded foot on drinking glasses has been around from the 16thc and yes was used to strengthen the edges of thinly blown feet , both in soda and in lead glass , both folded and plain feet were common throughout the early part of the 18thc ,and can be found on heavy balusters balustroids and plain stems ,air twists and opaque twists ,it is generally thought to have been discontinued towards the last 1/4 of the 18thc ,with a revival on early 19thc glasses for strength in tavern use . the foot on this glass is a plain conical foot, flatter than an 18thc conical foot, Pontil marks have been polished on continental drinking glasses from the 17thc , though on English glass was not commonly used till later in the 18thc , probably as a result of new cutting machinery that allowed them to tidy up the unsightly scar under the foot ,which also allowed feet to become flatter, the desire of the day I suspect., a domed and terraced foot is a completely different beast,a quick look through' Bickertons' , English glass book will show all the foot forms of the time .
 This glass to me looks to be a wine flute from the early to mid 19thc ,from the photo i would say the fluting is 'cut' and not 'moulded' ,it is also a 3 piece glass , bowl ,stem and foot, being put together by the 'gaffer'

The often quoted 'all Georgian glasses have feet larger than the bowls ' in general holds true , but!!!!   there are very many 18thc glasses were this is not the case , especially those with folded feet which are smaller than the bowl , my collection contains many examples of smaller feet both plain(untouched) and folded that explode this myth, it is a good idea to follow this rule for general run of the mill 18thc glasses , but not to be relied upon 100%.

if anyone would like photos of bowl forms , foot forms.stem forms etc on 17thc and 18thc glass please feel free to contact me via email and I will gladly supply photos ,

cheers ,
             Peter

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 11:40:53 AM »
thanks for the corrections Peter  -  and Bickerton is one I don't yet have.   I was describing the foot from Felice Mehlman, and obviously mis-interpreted the images.   Thanks for the offer of pics. of bowl forms, and might take you up on that. :)       Drinking glasses can be very difficult to date - so many variations - and with certain styles repeated in subsequent centuries etc.

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Offline Chris Harrison

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2011, 02:19:59 PM »
See, I told you it was better to wait for a proper expert!!   ;D

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: old drinking glass, flute, English victorian ?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2011, 06:39:27 PM »
o.k. you're right again Chris............you'd think I'd learn, wouldn't you :pb:

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