Author Topic: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960  (Read 1205 times)

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Offline Anik R

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Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« on: May 17, 2011, 06:28:47 PM »
Hi,

I've got a question about this Filip Milos vase.  Thanks to Emil's gallery, I know it's Rosice glassworks, pattern number 973.  Though I can't find it in the catalogues, a search in Marcus' database comes up with 1957 as the year it was designed.  On the other hand, Emil has 1960 as the date.  Do we know which it is for sure?

Thank you  :hi:
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Anik R

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 07:45:19 PM »
I found this vase in a 1963 edition of the CGR.  The design date given is 1960.   I wonder if this is correct?

By the way, it's Milos Filip, and not Filip Milos, as I wrote earlier.  Sorry.
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Anik R

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 07:57:12 PM »
It seems I'm having a conversation with myself... not terribly fulfilling or fruitful. ::)

Does anyone know how the pattern numbering for Rosice works?  Does a larger 3-digit (vase) number mean a later design?
My Milos Filip vase is pattern number 973.  The vase doesn't appear in the Rosice-Glassexport 1958 catalogue, however there are other vases numbered 985, 986, 988, 989, 997... all obviously from 1958 or earlier.

Please help.  :usd:

 
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Offline Frank

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 11:05:21 PM »
All glassworks tended to number consecutively although they may use different pattern books and use different number ranges in each that could overlap, usually with some other code to differentiate. A design would be numbered when it was added to the pattern book... but it may not have entered production at the same time. Thus the approach of dating to first reference is usually acceptable.

Gathering data on pattern numbers and years is the best way of determining the date of a design but that takes a lot of leg-work! Getting to see the actual pattern book masters can help as these often include the design date and may include the production start date too, Catalogues are less helpful as these could be issued annually and getting enough copies to find introduction year is near impossible. Then you hit on another problem in that inclusion in a catalogue is not a certain indication that the item was produced in that year! Oh and often catalogues were undated so that could remain in use for several year.

Next down the line are retailer catalogues and these are usually only including items actually in production at that time so potentially useful and more often dated too. Just hard to find.
Frank A.
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Offline Anik R

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2011, 05:40:17 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to reply extensively, Frank.  And here I was, hoping for an easy answer. ;)

The vase does not appear any earlier than in the 1963/7 edition of the CGR, with 1960 given as the date.  Marcus Newhall surely had access to various archives, including master pattern books, so his date of 1957 must have come from a reliable source (assuming it isn't a simple error.)  Perhaps the vase was designed and registered in 1957, but put into production from 1960.  

I'll have to satisfy myself with assumptions for the time being as 'we' i.e. the general public, don't have access to Czech (pressed glass) pattern books and legwork, unfortunately, isn't an option.
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline rocco

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2011, 09:50:02 AM »
Anik, sorry, I can't help you here, but I have had several threads recently as well where I was talking to myself, so I know how you feel...  ::)
BWT, did you see that my pink miniature jardiniere seems to be identified? :chky:

Greetins,
Michael


Offline Anik R

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2011, 02:02:04 PM »
Michael, sorry, did you say something?   :24:
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline rocco

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2011, 03:21:51 PM »
Who? Me? :usd:


Offline Anik R

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2011, 07:34:55 PM »
 :hug:
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Frank

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Re: Filip Milos Rosice 973 vase ... 1957 or 1960
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2011, 11:53:51 PM »
Newhall states that dates given are earliest reference he located but unfortunately does not give the references. I don't think he had access to original pattern books, and most of his dates are from CGR.

From a source I am still preparing for publication in The Glass Study, Filip designs appear in CGR 1956/11, /12, 1958/13, 1960/15, 1961/2, /1,6 1962/16, 1962/17....etc. So one of those may give an answer.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
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