Author Topic: Carnival Butter Dish? - ID = Walther Oliven  (Read 1820 times)

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Offline Della

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Offline Glen

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 12:27:43 PM »
Interesting! My first thought was Brockwitz "Oliven"...but then I studied your photos a little more and now I am not so sure, as there are some differences.

I would say that yes, it is a covered butter dish. I'll think this through some more - no time right now (apologies....have to be somewhere else right now  :roll: )

Glen
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 12:30:48 PM »
Looks like a butter dish to me, although I suspect that in the UK they were used for jam/preserves as well as I had a large 6-place setting of Jeannette Doric and Pansy in teal with two butter dishes


Offline Glen

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 12:32:01 PM »
Ah, still thinking, on the hoof....should be out of the door but I can't go while this is on my mind.

Tentatively attributed to Riihimaki  "Cut Ovals"...back in a mo!

Glen

Back again. Well, here's the bottom line for now. The pattern has been called "Cut Ovals" and in print (Edwards and Carwile.......!) it has been tentatively attributed to Riihimaki.

I cannot confirm that attribution, as it is not in the catalogs that I have searched. Seems it has been found in amber, which would probably rule out Brockwitz. I need to delve further to see if I can find out anything more. Hopefully someone else may be able to pin it down.

Della, is yours definitely marigold (clear base glass) or is it amber (light brownish base glass)?

One thing I would say safely - it's a European butter dish.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Della

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 01:51:27 PM »
Hi Glen,

Only the knob is clear, as in clear. It is marigold, the glass is not brownish. The dish and lid look lemon/peach/light amber, almost like a mirror, even in the dullest of conditions.

I have, again, surfed the net to look for something similar, before posting it here, but again, I couldn't find anything close.

Here you can compare the Inwald compote colour to the colour of this butter dish;


(http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10026/thumb_dishi%26b.jpg)

Christine,

I also thought, maybe jam dish as it isn't the usual oblong shape. That'a why I put the ?
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 02:11:19 PM »
It's definitely a butter dish, butter didn't always come in neatly wrapped blocks :D  :D. I think you bought a chunk off a large block or even a scoop or two out of a container and then made curls or individual pats stakced in pyramids when you were having a posh tea with all the trimmings (hot toast, crumpets, teacakes...  mmm).

It was probably the arrival of Anchor butter from New Zealand in easy to transport and retail greaseproof-wrapped blocks that initiated oblong butter dishes.


Offline Glen

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2006, 02:28:51 PM »
Della, check out my article on the recently found "Stippled Clover & Gothic" (Brockwitz) butter dish, to see the typical shape for covered butters. This shape was used for butters in the early part of the 1900s (and late 1800s) - both in the USA and Europe.
http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/StippledClover.html

What was different between the two continents is that most USA covered butters have the moulded pattern on the outside of the cover. It's interesting to note that not all European butters have the moulded pattern on the outside. Some do - and some don't. One school of thought suggests that it was so the outside could be wiped clean of sticky fingerprints.

And within the same pattern suite (service) it's often possible to find a butter with the pattern on the outside and also one with the same pattern on the inside (Brockwitz Curved Star is a perfect example).

Often there would also be a cheese dish that was a larger version of the butter - and with a round domed shape.

I'm still thinking about the pattern on your dish. It is almost a hybrid - it has the long ovals of Brockwitz "Oliven" and also the upright ribs or ridges of Brockwitz "Triands" - yet it is neither. And given that an example is known in amber, that more or less rules out Brockwitz, as I said. I am wondering if it might even be a Rindskopf piece, or possibly Walther. I'm thinking out loud without checking, so I should stop waffling and get looking!

Such is research on the hoof..........

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Della

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2006, 02:39:54 PM »
Of course Christine, you are right. I forget that not everything came neatly packaged and ready to fit perfectly into a specially made dish.

After having read the definitions about Marigold on Glens' site, again. I have come to the conclusion that it is probably Pastel Marigold. I have 3 pieces of Carnival in total. The Inwald is definitely Pumpkin and my small snack dish is probaly Clambroth. This butter dish is neither. I have taken it outside and held it up to the sun and there is no iridescence, but as you can see on the photos, when in the shade (no sun at all then, sorry), it does.
Enjoying being in the Midlands.......some people are just amazing....
xx


Offline Glen

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2006, 02:56:41 PM »
EUREKA>>>>I've got it.

It is August Walther's "Oliven" - 1931. Number in the catalog - 20817.

Another Carnival Glass mystery solved. And it all happened here over the past couple of hours! Anyone with the "Cut Ovals" butter dish shown in their Edwards & Carwile books, please amend the maker to WALTHER.

Della, may I post your photo of the butter dish on my website "Walther" feature, as this piece needs to be recorded? I will, of course, acknowledge and credit you fully.

The colour, by the way, is just marigold. Pastel marigold is one of the DDG marigolds, as is Pumpkin. Both are very rarely found. Pastel marigold is full of lime, fuschia, purple, aqua and gold, as you twist and turn the iridescence. Most marigold falls in the mid range category.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Della

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Carnival Butter Dish?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2006, 03:00:43 PM »
Glen,

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: Thank you, AGAIN :!:

Of course you may use the photos. Feel free.
If you need any more, just ask and I will take some.
Enjoying being in the Midlands.......some people are just amazing....
xx

 

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