Author Topic: Early Whitefriars amber bubble dump/doorstop ? ID = Not a known Whitefriars  (Read 2046 times)

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Offline chriscooper

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Thought ID = was used when an item had been positively identified, the general consensus how I read it is it's not a Whitefriars weight so further confused by the 'Not a known Whitefriars' comment being added?
Maybe it's just me and how I read it anyone else confused?
Chris


Offline Lustrousstone

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To me not a known Whitefriars implies that it might possibly be an unknown Whitefriars.


Offline Baked_Beans

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I would like to leave a long-winded footnote if I may.

It could be possible to construct an argument in favour of a possibility that it is Whitefriars and it's good , I feel , to keep the possibility open even though proof would be very difficult . Unless it's a known example from another maker.

I've posted a shot of the dump with a couple of sea green paperweights (the bubble patterns and shape differ with the two sea greens). It just illustrates the similar general bubble sizes . Not much of an argument but it is possible to see the similarities.

Also there is a question of the age to the base. I've added a close shot of the base of the dump showing a good deal of age. This is in contrast to the base of a WF's c1970's ish ? doorstop which shows considerable scratching but less age.

Then there is the thought that Whitefriars changed the colour of their amber from the old amber illustrated with the beaker in the last photo. This is only thowing a wild theory into the equation (with no evidence what so ever), but perhaps in experimenting with a new amber colour  there was lots of amber glass around which wasn't quite the right colour so it was made into dumps . Perhaps there was no need to finish the base (as was the norm  with earlier Victorian dumps) .

So in keeping the question open rather than stating it definately  isn't Whitefriars could be the better option as it might prompt some other examples to come to light either in favour or against the idea.  :ooh:
Mike


Offline johnphilip

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  :hi: I have been interested in W/Fs for about thirty years and  handled thousands of pieces , been to loads of exhibitions and talks on W/Fs glass , i have a very large collection from the mid 1800s to the 1980s i have seen many different bases but yet to see a piece of W/Fs glass with a ground base , even on pieces out of the back door . jp


Offline Baked_Beans

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Hi John,

I'm not sure if it is ground.... only by age it seems. It's just looks like a mass of scratches to me.
Mike


Offline Lustrousstone

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Whitefriars' bases have the pontil mark finely ground out to give a circular mark, then they often have the base flattened by grounding and then it's all polished, as with your blue swirly weight. The amber weight has a sharp pontil mark and a very roughly ground base. Look at the base closely under a lens and then look at a known WF base. Every man and his dog has used controlled bubbles. I'm sorry but your paperweight has little to support an exclusively WF attribution.


Offline Baked_Beans

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Hi Christine,

Firstly I don't want to seem as if I'm questioning anyone's knowledge or expertise here and as always I'm so greatfull for all the feedback , especially with this one ! I agree with the general view that is highly unlikely that this is Whitefriars .

I wanted to illustrate how I came to ask the question here, even with the knowlege that Whitefriars glass is renound for its' polished pontil 'lenses' .

The wear and dulling to the base could have been caused by the dump being used as a doorstop on a stone or hardwood floor, there are hundreds of scratches of different lenghts going off in all different directions all over the base area . That is why I questioned the ground base argument. Many  old paperweights can show real  wear and dulling to the base having started life in a polished state.

It's all very interesting to me and I'm still on a long old learning curve with glass but it helps so much to be able to talk about some glass finds here  :t:

Thanks Mike.

 
       
Mike


Offline chriscooper

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Hi Mike, firstly I never initially commented on the weight because I thought enough had already been said and the general consensus was that it wasn't  so didn't really see any point and anyway I know nothing about paperweight in general.
Really I just added the comment because I thought it unnecessary to add ID = Not a known Whitefriars which I thought just added confusion? and even implies it could be a either an early piece, maybe uncatalogued or even a 'frigger' piece.
So really was just asking the moderator politely why the 'add on to the title and why it was just not left as an enquiry post till any further if any information came to light?
Anyway back to the weight, Whitefriars early amber, last part of the 19th / early 20th century was indeed a brown darker  amber, most of the catalogues available from the onwards show amber in the colour range which was known has gold amber from around 1920 which was Selium based and had a definite orange colour after the war the name appeared to change to golden amber till around 1962 when it appears to have been discontinued and replaced in 1969 by tangerine.
I have been handling/selling W/f for 10 years and all the pieces  I  have come across from the 1930' onwards are the orange shade of amber and have never come across a known/labelled piece resembling this colour/style weight.
Have stated many times never say never because things do crop up from time to time and bite and bite you on the ars*
My honest opinion though is loads of pieces all the time appear from the '30s onwards and I am sure a weight of this style would probably be available with a label on and I have never come across one so my opinion is pretty sure it isn't.
Hows that for 'long winded' apologies for having to read all that but I am well knon to 'go on a bit'
Cheers and good luck with your collecting, it's never been a better time to start.
Chris :sun:


Offline johnphilip

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There is one of their massive green doorstops on ebay now , not mine !!! Terry Khancat also has one . Dare i say they are quite rare .


Offline Baked_Beans

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WoW !!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Enormous-Whitefriars-Sea-Green-Door-Stop-/330589766098?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item4cf8af81d2

Makes mine look entirely puney !

Thanks too Chris ! I didn't know the step from old amber went to  golden amber ...I thought there was a less golden amber between the two ! Shows what I know !

The base on mine now really does look like it was ground and then a whole lot of extra wear on top....that's what threw me on this one  ::) !

Thanks so much ! Mike  :ho:
Mike

 

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