Author Topic: Ysart Weight - a question of age  (Read 1328 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Ysart Weight
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2011, 11:08:24 PM »
   Just to throw a spanner in the works(sorry) it looks a bit squashy for a Paul Ysart post war era. Could it be a post war Ysart weight? thinking about the glass colour also. Roger.


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
    • England
Re: Ysart Weight
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 12:59:58 AM »
Roger, which parts do you think look "squashy"? Just the larger outer canes, or other parts, too?

It is reasonable to use the general look of a weight to help assess its age. Indeed, there are some Paul Ysart weights that almost shout "pre-war" just because of the look of the design and the size of the elements. But if just one feature appears out of keeping with the rest, then it becomes more of an interesting clue rather than a major pointer.

I stand by my initial comment that I do not know for sure whether Roy's weight is pre- or post-war. If I was able to replicate Colin Mahoney's findings (and also a comment made by John Simmonds in his book) about UV analysis separating pre- and post-war Paul Ysart work, then I would visit Roy and settle the matter. But as yet, I have not proven that type of uv difference across my own weights.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Ysart Weight - a question of age
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »
 Hi,the outside canes seem pretty good but early, apart from the radial spirals which seem to be early, un-neat lengths and certainly not late PY accuracy. The centre block of canes are in general a bit squashy and untidy for late PY, the radial twists virtually touching some but then not all of the central block.
    With regard to the glass colour its quite clear compared to pre-war weights,indicating late 1940s and 1950s.
        So is it a very good salvador or is it a quite early PY with a clearer glass than was available at Moncrieffs at the time.  Dilema!!!!!            ROY of course did not say PYsart but YSART. Roger H.
          By the way ,I have spent time with the short and long wave UV identification but only find it usefull in the broader sense of different era's of batch mixes. The natural eye ID of glass tint is still very good. Roger H.


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
    • England
Re: Ysart Weight - a question of age
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 05:49:37 PM »
Thanks for those comments Roger. I think we need some more clarification.

All of my comments in this thread are in the context of one of my initial points: "... strongly indicates Moncrieff years, but is it pre- or post-war?" But what do you mean by "early" and late" in the context of your points? And do you believe that Paul Ysart's post-war work at Moncrieff's (i.e. 1946 to 1961/2) never had any untidiness"?

Your sentence: "So is it a very good salvador or is it a quite early PY with a clearer glass than was available at Moncrieffs at the time.", makes little sense to me! How could there have been "a clearer glass ... than available"? Available to whom? And at what time?

As for whether it was made by Salvador Ysart, I have never seen a weight of a similar pattern that has other features strongly suggesting Salvador's work. Also, the way the canes are set into the ground is very typical of Paul Ysart's style but even the tidiest of Salvador's work shows the canes appearing slightly proud of the ground. Also, I have never seen a jasper ground in any likely Salvador weight - many powdered grounds, but not the white-and-coloured jasper that Paul used throughout his career.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Ysart Weight - a question of age
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 07:27:40 PM »
  Gooday,by early and late I mean Moncrieff pre or post war. I understand there may have been 2 or 3 batch composition changes in this time period.
 As to never having any post war untidiness I can only bow to your superior knowledge on the subject but the ones I have seen seem pretty good to me. Why would a man who took pride in his abilities to make a good central pick up of the arranged canes let slide on occasions?
 To your 3rd paragraph: the clearer glass was not available to Moncrieffs early weights and that was the point I was making, although you do say there are clearish weights that seem to be of an early period I believe?? I find that odd or perhaps just an anomoly that cannot be explained.
   As for paragraph 4: You have me there. I will put a weight on which I believe to be Pauls standard for the 1950s.
             Regards Roger


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
    • England
Re: Ysart Weight - a question of age
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 12:20:32 AM »
That is a good weight; clear, clean & crisp-looking. (Good photos, too.) But there is a "fault"!

The inner ring of red-white canes has only one which is the "proper" shape, the rest are "squashed" in a variety of ways. Clearly, for the overall look of the weight, that "fault" does not detract too much. And it was just an accident of the way most of those particular canes reacted during the working. It was not so much of a problem that the weight should not be put out to the market.

It is an example of a weight that has good features but a small area of lesser quality. And that, I think applies to many Paul Ysart weights throughout his Moncrieff period. I do not believe there was a time when suddenly he got everything right and never had a problem thereafter. There are lots of examples of apparently pre-war period PY weights that have very little, if any, defects in the working - except for the "darkened glass" of the dome. And there are many apparently post-war Moncrieff examples that have clear glass domes but have an "error" somewhere.

So I tend to think that a dividing line, such as pre- and post-war periods, marking different quality levels does not really exist. More likely that there was steady progress and improvement across all those years but, on occasion, some weights, even though good enough for the market at the time, did not show the absolute best quality.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Ysart Weight - a question of age
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 09:04:12 PM »
       Hi, Yes I noticed the odd perfect cane of course when I bought the weight off somebody you know very well. The price was correct so no problem. It a shame they were not all squashed ,it would have looked even better.
        Reading through your reply I guess all things are about as accurate an explanation as possible. The graph, quality against time frame, cannot be an exact straight line, its rather curvy. Thanks for the discussion, I would imagine several PY enthusiasts would have been keenly following along. Regards Roger H.


 

This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand