Author Topic: Murano Goblets - advice sought  (Read 1734 times)

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Offline TxSilver

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2011, 02:55:22 PM »
Desm, the last five pictures made the origin of the glass less clear. The first two goblets have a traditional Venetian style. The third and fourth pictures with the swirled clear glass and blue details have a Spanish type design. I have seen this type glass made in Spain, Italy, and Germany. There may be other places. The last picture with the ribbed foot has a German spirit to it, but it could have been made other places. All of the glass is lovely, but a mystery to me. Maybe someone could tap Ivo on the shoulder to see if he can provide some insight.
Anita
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 06:38:52 AM »
Perhaps what should actually happen is to post the different glasses, each in a new thread with a descriptive title, in the main glass forum. They can always be moved backed here


Offline langhaugh

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 07:10:25 AM »
Just a comment on  "à  la façon de Venise."

First, just to back up what Anita said in another thread about the responsibility of ensuring that we use terms correctly here as any little error tends to spread quickly on the Internet.

Dean may well be right in that the artists in Murano are carrying on a style of glass made in earlier centuries, but that is not how the term is used in practice. Newman's "An Illustrated DIctionary of Glass" defines the term. "In the style of Venice, as applied to high-quality glassware made throughout Europe, often by emigrant Venetian glass-workers..." In other words, it applies to glass made anywhere but Venice. To use the term today to apply to glass made in Venice is inappropriate and leads to misunderstandings.

David
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Offline Ivo

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2011, 01:24:08 PM »
Hiya. Had a look at these and agree that most of these were made in Murano.  But maybe not all. The blue trim and the cable decoration for me point to Gordiola who was a large producer of Venetian style glass,for which they used workers from Murano. Other makers could include Lagranja de San Ildefonso and Saint Louis, Sevres, Bonhomme in Liege-.  Even some British glassworks dabbled in Venetian style glass - and I will not use the term Facon-de-Venise as to me that refers to venetian style items from the 18th century and earlier. These glasses are clearly from a more practical period, say 1880 through 1940. And I would not let the presence or absence of little glass flowers lead me to any conclusion. Every technique, every decoration has been used in Murano.
Ivo
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Offline langhaugh

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 02:44:53 AM »
Hi:

I had a look through "The Colours of Murano in the XIX Century," which has quite a few pictures of goblets, many of which are Salviati. I didn't see any of yours there, but, just to reinforce what Anita and Ivo wrote,  there were quite a few with flowers on them.

David
My glass collection is at https://picasaweb.google.com/lasilove


Offline desm

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 08:06:18 AM »
@ everyone. Thanks for the helpful comments. The info I have is that these were gifts, possibly even samples, from an employee at a Murano furnace to a relative in England in the early part of the 20C.  Its hard to say if this info is true or not but they are fabulously ornate, as one would perhaps expect, and very fine - so I worry about them getting broken. Your comments have helped confirm perhaps most of my understanding.

Sadly I have no space in my little cottage to show these lovely things, so they are triple wrapped in bubble wrap and boxed up in the loft. This is a shame so I think I will have to sell them. Not  sure of the best way to do this but the ubiquitous Ebay probably beckons. However if any have other advice on alternatives then I'd be grateful.

Cheers

Des



Offline soledivo

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2011, 02:55:24 PM »
hi Des,
I have 1 goblet which I think is the same as your, but with a blue bunch of grapes and leaf as the stem,
I also have a much larger example with a clear bunch of grapes on.
The larger one doesn't have quality of the other and look more like a pooly executed copy.

I haven't time to do any photos today, i'm away for a couple of days, but i'l try and post them on your post if it helps.

I believe the smaller 1 I have is Venetian and the larger 1 I hope isn't.
martin


Offline ramanglass544

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 05:03:51 AM »
hello! I am a glassblower and lampworker that specializes in replicating historical glasses particularly venetian stemware from 1800s-1900s.
I cannot date these or tell you were they are from but I can tell you that these were not made at the furnace(except for the last picture which is possibly furnace worked) but were instead lampworked.

my proof is in the definition of the rigadin, or optic molding and in the proportions of avolios and knops. also the shape of the flower petals is more similar to that of a lampworker than traditional furnace work (petals look too thin and even colored, no chill marks).

the first three pictures assure me the piece is lampworked by the lack of a top disc on the upper avolio aswell as the definition of the optics

the first picture on your second post the blue flair that was made by pinching with tweezers goes down all the way to the white spiral which indicates additional heating associated with lampworking. also the avolio on the cup doesnt have a top disc which is also associated with lampworking.

the optics and handle on the third picture of your second post immediatly assures me this piece is lampworked. if you look closely you should find the ridges on this piece are more pronounced on the inside of the vessel than on the outside. had this been made at the furnace the ridges would be on the outside due to the use of an optic mold, however the ridges on the inside show that scallopped tubing was used. also the stub connecting the lower portion of the handle would never had been done at the furnace and was done as the lampworker couldnt properly control his heat base to add the handle.

the fourth of the second is lampworked because there are no tweezer marks on the handles and the stem is too thin and too wide, this would rarely happen in furnace glass.

the fifth of the second may be furnace worked due to the shape of the avolios, however the downturn the lip of the foot takes makes me sceptical. a furnace worker would have difficulty in doing this and one with the skill to do so would have much cleaner optics.
this doesnt mean they are not blown glass or are not italian just that these were not made at a furnace.

for more clarity, look up cesare toffolo on youtube to see these techniques demonstrated. and to see a true muranese furnace worker look up davide fuin, or lino tagliapietra.


Offline langhaugh

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 05:13:00 AM »
Thanks for that fascinating information. It will take me while to assimilate and use it, buy what a clear explanation of some of the differences between lamp worked an furnace worked glass

David
My glass collection is at https://picasaweb.google.com/lasilove


Offline Ivo

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Re: Murano Goblets - advice sought
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 07:19:15 AM »
Welcome to the board, Ramanglass544 - and for your clear description of lampwork vs. Furnace glass. It is great to have someone on  board who knows his onions - technically speaking. :thup:
Ivo
► BLUE HENRY ◄
 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.

 

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