Author Topic: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart  (Read 2372 times)

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Offline nigel benson

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 09:07:01 PM »
I think I need to make a number of comments here since I viewed the lot and handled every piece.

1) The lot was described as:

21. A collection of twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, various shapes and colours with applied Monart paper labels tallest 10cm high.               £50- 150

2) There were two Vasart pieces IMHO, along with 10 others, one of which was cracked (and marked as such).

3). The labels were fake - thick, glossy, and glued (not gummed like stamps used to be) with the codes rubbed away, because they could remain on that surface unlike the original matt Monart paper labels.

4). I believe these were the same grouping as sold in Phillips (from memory) many years ago as two lots of Monart miniatures. If right, I believe the vendor has correctly made observation to the auctioneer (Woolly and Wallis) to ensure that they were not marketed incorrectly a second time - see above description.

5) The ridiculous price achieved was due to folks not looking at the pieces correctly and hoping that they were indeed Monart miniatures - which they weren't even if Monart! Too big.

6) I'm pleased for the vendor who paid over twice the price originally and has recouped at least some of the cost because of 5 above. It is probable that the lot was put into Phillips by the dealer Frank mentions, but we have no proof, only that he was peddling these exact items at fairs in the South at that time.

The comments under 5 and 6 may be a little harsh, but should highlight a salutary lesson to those reading this thread. Lastly, I do not see why the auctioneer need make any comment on this occasion, since there was no mention of the glass being Monart, and the labels were described as what they are. Remember the phrase caveat emptor (buyer beware) and make sure you make all the necessary investigations before bidding.

Nigel



Offline nigel benson

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 09:21:03 PM »
Checked your link after I posted Frank. So, we're both thinking the same thing. Hooray  ;) :)

Nigel


Offline Frank

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2011, 09:38:44 PM »
The auctioneers responded and were happy with the news piece, although not wildly so.
Frank A.
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Offline Frank

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2011, 09:56:14 PM »
Nigel do you remember when J stalled out at the one of the Deco fairs in Kensington Town Hall, this is where he first showed them. I bought a dozen I think at around 25 a piece. Although it was clear from day one that labels were fake it took a few days and consultation until it was decided the pieces were fake too. By which time quite a lot got into circulation. He had about 50 on the day, saying they were salesman's samples. Sometime later somebody else told me that they had been made by an artist in London and told me the location of the studio... I always intended to ask him if he had made them but never got round to it. Maybe I should chase that up, but too many eggs in the pan at the mo. But my recent info clearly links J to a maker in Scotland and while not provable fits in with much else. But I somehow doubt that that was the source of this first batch. Another time a certain now retired London glass restorer had a lot of Vasart and Strathearn pieces the commission, from J again, to grind/polish flat rings and the salmon seals off. I guess for him it was just business. It is an amazing story, that I cannot tell, when you look at all the things he has done with Ysart glass alone and he dabbled in much else besides. Has to rank as one of the worst dealers in the UK. Too sad that no-one has hard evidence and circumstantial doesn't count.
Frank A.
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Offline nigel benson

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 07:47:56 PM »
I certainly do Frank, I was next to him on one occasion!! I too bought some pieces, which he described, as you say, as salesman's samples, but the labels looked wrong, the glass too thick, and some colours too bright. This made me suspicious, and when a small group turned up in a major decorative arts dealer's shop that purported to be surface decorated it confirmed my misgivings. They had an internal white layer that was thick and very opaque (not like the generally pearly white of true Monart) and the outer layer of brown was glossy, but not iridescent.

Too much of a co-incidence. Then your warnings went out through the Monart and Vasart Collector's Club by a chap called...........Frank ;) :) :)

I always thought that he was commissioning items up in Scotland, but your connections within the glass world, particularly Monart, were I suspect, more wide spread than mine at the time, so it could well have been somewhere in London. Better in some respect, since it was less likely that the maker would be aware of what he was involved in.

I do agree he did certainly go into the running for being the worst dealer in the UK, but I'm afraid there have been worse cases, which raised much greater sums for the cynical/greedy dealers that did the dirty!! Urgh :o

As a result of my experience at that time I always have an example of one of these fake Monart miniatures, with a fake label, on my stand to teach collectors so that they do not get duped. This sale high-lighted the need to keep on doing just that ;)

Nigel


Offline Frank

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2011, 08:57:27 PM »
I came across a mention of the Japanese Gallé high-end fakes of the 70s?/80s that had fooled all the experts on the board recently. Last year I was in contact with a US dealer, Gallé specialist, and not having seen much about these I asked him if he knew if they still circulated. He got quite angry saying that there was no such thing... sigh.
Frank A.
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Offline millarart

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2011, 08:38:58 PM »
i too asked for pics of labels as when i looked at pieces they looked like the fakes id seen before, once i seen pics of labels i knew they to were fakes from info on ysartglass site years back, pity the auction house hadnt listed that the labels were in the monart style instead of saying monart labels, i feel sorry for the buyer of these as by time commision is added the cost gonna be nearer 700 pounds and if they had to be sent then your looking at nearer 800 pounds, you would have thought that collectors of monart might have had an idea that they werent right specially when paying that kinda money, look before you leep comes into mind, anyway am sure i will be put in my place for voicing my opinion, but hey its my tuppence worth, oh and lastly if it were proved that these were made in london and not perthshire then surely the buyer can take them back for full refund, the thing is it could well be someone known off of here, and there not going to admit it now or will they???


Offline millarart

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »
just a thought on these fakes, if the buyer is a user on here and they cant return them for some reason to the auction house then maybe they can get some of their dosh back by offering the fakes with fake labels for sale to collectors so we have the chance to own, see, feel and know what to look for in the future, id happily buy one and im sure others would also, thoughts???????////


Offline nigel benson

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 09:09:53 PM »
Good to hear from you Gary  :)

An interesting idea to help out the buyer, despite my comments, its a great piece of thinking outside the box  :) :)

Nigel


Offline millarart

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Re: Twelve Perthshire glass miniature vases, FAKE Monart
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 09:23:15 PM »
Hi Nigel
             how are you mate , long time since i heard from you, dont have your number anymore, thats the problem with digital cordless phones, you store all your numbers in them and forget that if they break then every numbers lost, so back to the good old phone book, anyway i hope your well, ive just started collecting Ysart after having a few years off, 4 i think maybe more, anyway back to the subject, yeah i would certainaly buy one of the fakes from the buyer to have an example in my collection and as i said earlier it would help the buyer get some of his money back, just have to hope they come forward and make themselfs known,

 

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