Author Topic: Waterford cut vase for dating.  (Read 689 times)

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Offline Paul S.

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Waterford cut vase for dating.
« on: October 03, 2011, 04:16:31 PM »
only wish I had photographed this before cleaning  -  it was looking more like a misty morning on the marshes  -  and much to my surprise has cleaned up beautifully.     I've trawled the internet looking at Waterford patterns, and thought even it might have been something to do with John Rocha  -  but haven't yet really seen anything similar from this factory, most of which is traditional cut glass designs.            It looks as though it owes far more to one of Queensbury's designs for Webb Corbett than a piece of Irish glass, but the back stamp is beyond doubt.
If it were possibly from that post war contemporary period than maybe it was copying Webb Corbett - or just being modernist perhaps.     Unfortunately, the pictures don't do the piece justice  -  it really is a corker in the sunlight.         Does anyone have any thoughts on possible designer, or date.    thanks for looking. :)


Offline Frank

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 09:45:19 PM »
Stylistically it does fit with Waterford's designs and a couple of pieces come very close to this in 50s catalogue... so I guess your comes a little later. I think I might have a later Waterford catalogue somewhere. They named services but only numbered vases.

Update - By the 80s/90s(?) catalogue yours was not in there and designs less interesting

Further reading

http://glass-study.org/biblio/index.php?action=resourceView&id=1074
Frank A.
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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 08:57:02 PM »
Thanks for checking the 50's catalogue.      The results of this window of originality - in British cut glass designs  -  from the late 40's through to the late 60's are striking to say the least (and desireable) - chapter 16 in Hajdamach's '20th Century British Glass' details most of the main U.K. designers, although in line with the book's title, there is obviously no coverage of Waterford patterns/designs.   I had no idea that Waterford had also produced some 'progressive' designs - thought they had remained stuck in the C18, continuing with very traditional designs/shapes etc., and this is the first piece of Waterford I've seen which even approaches anything like being different.    Maybe their venture away from tradition was short-lived, but I really don't know.      Might this all over cutting be described as 'brilliant cut'??
I tried looking though some of my other books for enlightenment on Waterford patterns etc., but have been disappointed  -  possibly, I guess, because some of the printing dates are a tad early to have included any non-traditional pieces.
Stennett-Willson ('Beauty of Modern Glass') shows but a single traditional example of Waterford cutting  -  and annoyingly this book is without an index, which is always frustrating.
Jackson ('20th Century Factory Glass') shows two pieces only of Waterford - both in a traditional shape/cut.
Polak seems never to have heard of Ireland or Waterford Glass - and places her index in the centre of the book  -  confusing, if you happen to be in a hurry, and might make you assume there wasn't one.
Elville dismisses Irish glass in 4 pages, showing only very traditional pieces/cuts.
My copies of Millers seems also to have by-passed Eire.
However, none of these comments is meant to imply the the above books are without merit (some I couldn't be without) - it's just that they have let me down this evening :)

I notice that Abe Books offers a volume with the title 'Waterford An Irish Art The Collectors Guide' by Ida Grehan  -  which seems substantial at 256 pages.     Is this a good buy, do people think  -  believe it has a goodly quantity of pix.

Wait to see if you locate the later catalogue.    Thanks :)


Offline Frank

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 09:59:20 PM »
Bear in mind that Waterford as reborn in 1951 is a different beast to what went before! Havel was a Czech glassmaker and while much was traditional in concept there is clearly some elements of modernist thinking. They started with a bunch of German cutters so I guess Havel was a big design influence. I will digitise these cats asap. It does seem though that towards the end they concentrated on over traditional for the US market and that probably contributed to their demise. Don't forget Domhnall Õ Broin was trained by Havel... Still not uncovered my copy of the book I mentioned but buy that too. As far as I can tell the others were aimed at a US audience but basic description sounds OK all 4 of the books are currently showing on front here http://glass-study.org/biblio/index.php
Frank A.
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Online Lustrousstone

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 10:58:30 AM »
Frank, would you have a look through your 50s catalogue for this please http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42625.0.html


Offline nigel benson

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 11:23:07 AM »
Paul,

Firstly the reason why so little is written on Waterford within books on British glass is simply that it is Irish and therefore is a questionable inclusion.

There is an index in The Beauty of Modern Glass - you'll find it annoying, since its at the front after the essay on the glass. It shows where to find Designers and Manufacturers.

I have owned an identical vase to yours for some years. It was included in Art Deco to Post Modernism, A Legacy of British Art Deco Glass by myself and Hayhurst. We placed it as 1960's, but I was in Jeanette's debt for that, since I didn't find the information (and therefore cannot give you the reference). Note that we did include Waterford ;) :)


Anne,

I have a Waterford catalogue dated 1964 which has a a stemmed and footed bowl with a markedly similar cut to the body and fan cut rim, just like your vase. However, your shape vase is not shown, even with other cutting. There is a similar form with a more bulbous body, but again not showing your vases cut.

Nigel


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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 12:46:42 PM »
Quote
Anne
That will be Christine  :kissy:

Thank you. I found those too, but not the shape.


Offline nigel benson

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 02:02:58 PM »

Whoops, sorry Christine  :o

Nigel


Offline Frank

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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 02:09:21 PM »
Frank, would you have a look through your 50s catalogue for this please http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,42625.0.html

Nothing remotely like it
Frank A.
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Re: Waterford cut vase for dating.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 02:22:38 PM »
Thank you. it's not a one-off, as I know of at least two more but their owners are no wiser than me.

 

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