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Author Topic: ? Clichy or St Louis pedestal cake stand,white with pink trail wrap frilled edge  (Read 782 times)

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Offline flying free

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Don't laugh  :-[   I know I'm fairly prone to hoping things are something  ;D  and it is damaged,but
I thought this might have been a Loetz tango piece...or Kralik, and it might be.  But when I looked more carefully at the actual opaline glass it's different somehow in what it looks like close up, to the tango pieces I have - it looks much much older.  It has a round highly polished pontil mark which I why I thought it was Loetz.  But something, I think the frilled edge, made me look further, and I then came round to thinking it might be Clichy.
What thoughts anyone please?  
It's quite large 22cm across by 10cm high to top of frill on rim.
And what are the hopes of me having  this one repaired, with say a ball on the top of the broken handle ? it may have been a second plate possibly , but I just thought it was the top of the handle missing.
thanks  :sun:
m

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Offline flying free

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Right after some more searching my current deduction is, I still think this is Clichy - I think it is Clichy opaline pate de riz 1845/1850.  And I think it may have had a sort of epergne type thing in the middle of it perhaps.
I've found a transparent red glass compote that has a frilled rim, it's a smaller piece, less undulations on the frill but similar.  It has a different stem.  I found a foot that's similar, a base with the same pontil mark, and stems that look the same as mine as well as where it joins the bowl underneath.  And they did do rim trailed pieces. 
m

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Offline Frank

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I think you might need to look at some books on Clichy and probably French ones... good luck :)

no suggestions, sorry.

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Offline flying free

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I was trawling through La Cristallerie de Clichy - unfortunately only online.  It does have an enormous amount of information and pictures but not every single page obviously.  I guess the page with my piece on was one that was missing  :24:
I was feeling quietly confident...until I remembered Ivo had said he'd come across makers in Belgium who had also done things with a pink trailed rim.
I may have to make a visit to the local library and ask them to get some books in for me I think.  I've quite a few things I want to look up now.
Added another close up picture to show the glass.
m

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Offline Ivo

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Looks like saint louis opaline to me - i don't think it is pate de riz which is much coarser and later. I have a salt from the same series, with the provision that the trailing is true red and not transparent pink. I also think these were immensely popular in the 1860s and were made by clichy, baccarat, saint louis and Zoude all in their own fashion. Comparing the diffrent items jn museums etc would be a bit of an excercise though.

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Offline flying free

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Thank you Ivo  :)
No, I think doing a quick tour to check would be out of the question  ;D
However, I do have a small piece of Baccarat Opaline - and comparing the two held up to the light, I would say they are incredibly similar, however the Baccarat does not have the tiny bits in that this cake plate does, just something a bit different about it.  That said, it is a much smaller piece so perhaps difficult to compare?
I shall go and check out Zoude if I can, as well as trying to find some St Louis but I think this could be needle in a haystack. Do you know if this would have had a handle on the top or an epergne type thing attached to it please?
Many thanks for looking
m

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Offline Ivo

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this is my minicollection of what I have been taking for Saint Louis - but it could be Baccarat as well. attribution is not straightforward here. I think your plate might have had a small acorn or pineapple on top which has broken off - it is definitely not some two-tier contraption.

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Offline flying free

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Thank you  :hiclp: - I 'think' it looks remarkably similar to the lower piece with the pink frill and the piece on the left.  The stem, and the slightly 'edged-shaped' foot, and the way it attaches to the base of the bowl 'looks' to be the same as well.  Thanks for the info on the adornment on the top.  There is one strange thing about the cakestand, which is the way the middle bit is attached.  The bowl has a hollow bit in the middle and seems to drop down into the stem hollow.  The middle glass bit is drawn up out of this hollow and has the knop bit on top (that should have the adornment on top of it).  Because of this there is a gap round the underneath of the  knop and down into the stem.  It has mould in it.  It's odd.  I have no camera for a couple of days but will take pics to show you.  Don't know if this helps any more in id'ing it, but perhaps for future reference just in case, it would be worth adding pics.
Thank you again and also for sharing your pics.
m

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Offline flying free

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whilst checking out and trying to find pics on Schachtenbach opaline I came across this on the Glaswolf site - a footed plate with similarities, attributed as Bohemian 1850.
http://www.glaswolf.de/Sehr-grosser-Tafelau.289+B6YmFja1BJRD0yODkmcHJvZHVjdElEPTI0NzgmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9Mjg5JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

 the frills have 16 undulations whilst mine only has 14 and they are slightly different in form, but it looks very similar in the type of glass do you think? I've just realised I didn't find out what Zoude was.  I shall be off to have a look.
m

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Offline flying free

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At last I have a perfect piece - odd, but perfect.  Is it a very small posy vase or  a salt?
It has a strange texture to touch, most of it is smooth and shiny but the foot feels as though it hasn't been totally polished on the outside perfectly.  The type of opaline is exactly the same as the larger tazza, sort of bubbly, with odd little fine strands in it.  The most amazing bit is the pink rim, it's 1.5 cm wide and applied to the white in the same way a trail would be, sort of 'incalmo' method. Quite incredibly done.
m

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