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Author Topic: Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID  (Read 457 times)

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Offline Andy Green

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Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID
« on: October 18, 2011, 02:58:58 PM »
Hi,

Joined on here yesterday & had some great assistance from other members, books to read & refer too etc. I was asked to post some photo's, so here they are. For ease of viewing I have placed 2 posts. This set is are about 6" tall.

It has an etched design of grapes. The etching is not uniformed on the glasses. Reading a Miller book, I think these have been wheeled etched because when I run my finger around the actual etch it feels concaved, as if ground out by something circular. Would I be correct? Also what sort of date do you think this set is?


Thanks for your help with a true novice

Regards

Andy
Kind Regards, Andy

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 08:55:28 PM »
hello Andy - thanks for the pix.     However, this is where you find out quite how difficult (sometimes) identification can really be. ;)      You are quite correct insofar as the decoration is created by wheel engraving, and you're doing well as you now know the difference between 'cut glass' and 'wheel engraved' pieces.      This type of drinking glass is quite common, and unless the piece is signed (or someone here recognizes the actual design) then you are going to have little or no chance of finding an attribution (i.e. knowing who made or decorated the glass).     The completely undecorated foot may indicate a lesser quality piece of glass.
Sources for this type of cheaper glass are many, although it may well be British, it might just as well be from the Continent.
You will become aware that people here often ask to see the underside of the foot  -  this can give vital information about method of manufacture - we are looking to see if the piece has been hand blown, or mass produced.         If the former, then the underside should show a small polished concave area, which we call the pontil mark  -  if more cheaply mass produced then the base will show simply a moulded surface without any other other marks.
You will learn much about drinking glasses by looking at as many examples as possible  -  go to antiques fairs, flea markets, charity shops, missionary mart outlets etc. etc., i.e. anywhere where you can handle drinking glasses legitimately, to look at the different styles and methods of manufacture.     Concetrate on the underside of the foot, in particular (to start with) -  you may be lucky and find something where th rough ponitl mark remains and has not been ground into a smooth concave area  -  and you may then have an C18 piece of glass.      Try, if possible, to 'ping' (i.e. gently but firmly flick the bowls with a finger nail) - and this should produce a good ring if the glass contains lead (lead crystal) - but will give a dull clunk if the glass is of a lesser quality (this doesn't always hold good, but you will need more knowledge to tell exactly when the 'clunk' piece is worth buying).
The size (diameter) of feet can also be a good indicator of older glasses  -  usually the large the foot, the older the glass, but again not without exceptions - and always look for marks (we call these 'back stamps) - often on the underside of feet, and will indicate the maker i.e.  Webb - Edinburgh, Walsh, Brierley, Tudor etc.
You will soon develope an instinctive habit of picking up every glass you encounter, just to feel the underside to locate the pontil mark, or not.
Other more subtle indcations of age and manufacture will help you to determine provenance etc., such as horizontal lines on bowls, tiny blips on the rims which indicate where the cutting scissors started and stopped.
So unless someone else can comment specifically on this pattern, you may have only a fairly modern drinking glass of dubious origin. :) 

You will also have to come to terms with the fact that - as probably in this instance - there are times when something you have chosen turns out to be less than exciting.   I suspect this is a more modern glass, without much pedigree.     The image of grapes is, of couse, self-explanatory.
However, please do tell us about the underside of the foot - this will help you to understand what not to look for, as much as what you do need to see. :)

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Offline Leni

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Re: Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 09:10:25 AM »
Thank you, Paul!  :hiclp:  From a not-quite novice who still doesn't know what she's buying most of the time :pb: I have to say your words are very wise and helpful  :thup:  :kissy:
Leni

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Offline Andy Green

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Re: Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 12:18:19 PM »
Paul,

Thank you for taking the time to provide so much information! I have looked under the foot and there is no sign of a Pontil or any other mark. I have 'pinged' the glass with my nail, and as you suggest, it is a dull note.

My other posting (Edwardian) they do have a lovely ring to them. No mark but cut under the foot.

You have been very helpful,

Kind regards

Andy
Kind Regards, Andy

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Wine glass with etched design of grapes for ID
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 12:39:24 PM »
It seems the foot was made in a clapper, a wooden insrument which ensures a perfectly rounded and flat foot.  In this glass the stem is worked out of the bowl and set on the foot which is made seperately.  A blob of hot glass is added to the end of the stem and turned round in the clapper or foot plank. This technique was later replaced by a three part assembly:  bowl, stem and foot were made seperately and joined together. This allowed the use of machine made stems.

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