Author Topic: Monart discontinued shapes ?  (Read 3706 times)

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Offline Gary

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Monart discontinued shapes ?
« on: November 25, 2011, 09:04:54 PM »
In this album are images taken by me from the four sketched Monart catalogues(1/ Monart Ware Lighting 2/ Models AI-ZI 3/ Models AJ-ZJ 4/ Models AK-ZK) housed in Perth museum. It would appear according to the text written in the catalogues that new shapes were introduced during 1938-1939 taking the place of the older shape but with the same shape code. Gary
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?&pos=-15871


Offline MHJ02

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 10:40:24 AM »
Thanks Gary, for those of us who can't get to the Museum 'cos we live so far away, info like this is fantastic.
Mary


Offline millarart

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 07:55:59 AM »
very interesting


Offline RAY

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 04:16:56 PM »
just out of curiosity which ysarts did the designs?
cheers Ray


Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 04:32:35 PM »
It would have been Salvador along with Mrs I Moncrieff who designed the majority if not all of the pre 1939 shapes.
Gary


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 09:11:37 PM »
No it was Paul Gary, ref Ian Turners talk at Perth in 2005 and possibly some of that was published in a GA journal... main clue being handwriting on the drawings was mostly Paul's.
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 11:13:54 PM »
I stand by, what I believe to be correct ie that Salvador along with Mrs I Moncrieff designed most of the pre 1939 shapes.
When Monart started production in 1924 Paul was only twenty years with only a couple of years working in the glass industry and on the other hand there is Salvador, forty two years old with decades working in the glass industry ( including some of the best glassworks in France) and was gaffer of the Monart work area. It was also one of Salvador's frigger vases that gave Mrs Moncrieff the initial idea of Monart glass. The question is, who is Mrs Moncrieff going to work with designing the first range of Monart shapes for sale, is it the young inexperienced Paul or Salvador the experienced master glassblower.
Gary


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 03:31:03 PM »
But exactly how inexperienced was Paul?

Back in those sorts of days, it's highly likely Paul was able to watch his Dad at work - I know Tim and Jonathan Harris watched their dad Michael, from a fairly young age, were able to get into the workspaces and see what was going on

My Dad had a dental workshop/lab in his practice - I went there loads of times as a small child and got to play with all the lab stuff - putty, wax, bunsen burners, mercury (loads of fun having it tickle as it runs around your palms, great fun to bash a drop of it hard and see it scatter into tiny droplets which you can then get to all run back together, I loved playing with it. Not recommended these days.)

Paul was the one with the most artistic talent - something he would have naturally been developing as he grew up - and if he was watching glassmaking - he'd have got a good "feel" for it.

I really don't see why a 20 year old couldn't have been the one with new ideas - and designing at this tender age.
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.


Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 04:47:45 PM »
But exactly how inexperienced was Paul?. As a second year apprentice I would imagine fairly inexperienced in the glassblowing industry compared to his father Salvador.
Bear with me as take quotes from the book YSART GLASS which to my reading indicates it was Salvador and not Paul with Mrs Moncrieff who designed the majority of pre 1939 Monart shapes.
page 14 " During 1923 she (Mrs Moncrieff) encouraged Salvador to experiment with coloured glassware. She recorded the different shapes in a pattern book and brought fabrics from London for Salvador to match or copy"
page 15 "Ysart family standing in front of one of Salvador's more bizarre creations"
page 17 " Before the start of each production run, Salvador and Mrs Moncrieff would decide on the colour schemes and patterns"
No mention of Paul in any stage of the designing of the early Monart shapes.
Gary


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2011, 05:59:40 PM »
Ysart Glass is out of date in that respect because of Ian's later research, I really ought to check with him if it is published anywhere. The research as presented at the 2005 conference was good and convincing.

The family of Paul were certainly involved at a very young age, mostly in slicing canes for paperweights - they did not enjoy it. Presumably Paul's father had taken the same approach, certainly some of the shapes would be refined by Salvador but Paul would have been quite capable of doing this before the 20s were out - after all by the early 30s 'at least' he was breaking remarkably original ground with paperweights. You cannot easily make comparisons with a creative spirit of Paul's importance to the average glassmaker. We always have to be careful of making assumptions in research.

Also bear in mind that Paul began working with his father as apprentice at E&L in 1915, then at Cochran 1916-? and with Moncrieff from 1922 so by the time he joined Moncrief he would be near the end of his 7 year apprenticeship. Unfortunately his memory was not detailed at that point and the duo may have worked elsewhere, as is believed, in Glasgow before 1922.
Frank A.
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