Author Topic: Monart discontinued shapes ?  (Read 3776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 696
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 06:41:12 PM »
from the pieces i do remember from the Perth conference i to was led to believe that Paul played a major part in the design of the Monart shapes , but then im amazed i can remember anything from last week never mind 6/7 years ago :sm: did anyone take notes?????
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart


Offline Gary

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 622
  • Gender: Male
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2011, 06:53:52 PM »
"You cannot easily make comparisons with a creative spirit of Paul's importance to the average glassmaker." Quote from Frank. I did not make the comparison of Paul to an average glassblower but with Salvador a master glassblower.
Frank are you saying that Paul and not Salvador collaborated with Mrs Moncrieff designing all Monart shapes from 1924 onwards.
What part is out of date as two of the quotes I used (page 14 and page 17) are from Paul Ysart personal recollection given to I Turner in 1985.
Gary


Offline Frank

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 9420
  • Gender: Male
    • Glass history
    • Gateway
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2011, 07:51:53 PM »
No, I am saying we need to get Ian's later work to a larger audience.

My laws of glass research. :-)
 
Worst Sources that must be corroborated elsewhere:
1. Colleagues at the factory - each will tell you a different story of the same event.
2. Company PR material - no surprises.
3. First hand account by the glass-maker concerned.
 
A 4th would be a good technical editor who red-lines all the 'assumptions' that inevitably creep-in. A chilling experience when it first happens to you  :spls: as your draft looks like a lip-stick tester  ;) But what gets published is probably as close to the truth that you will get at the time of publishing. The next day it all gets trashed again  :huh:

But keep plugging away you are getting some good data together. :thup:
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
Glass Zoo - Glass Study.COM
Commercial Czech


Offline chopin-liszt

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8541
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 12:03:32 PM »
 :hi: Gary,

It would be very convienent for researchers if things could all be neatly packaged into pigeon holes, but this was simply not how things happened.
For example, you ask;
"Frank are you saying that Paul and not Salvador collaborated with Mrs Moncrieff designing all Monart shapes from 1924 onwards."
But it is perfectly possible they both did, both before and after!

To be a designer does not require (much) knowledge of hot glass working, indeed, students of glass design in Art Colleges (before hot glass became available to them for their personal use) made their designs and then "technicians" - the glassmakers - made their designs up for them.
I would imagine if they came up with something which was technically beyond the makers' skills, it would simply fail.
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.


Offline MHJ02

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Gender: Female
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2011, 12:43:33 PM »
I don't know if this point would have a bearing on who collaborated with Mrs Moncrieff, but didn't Salvador and Paul have a huge falling out in the 30's over Salvador's remarriage.   If Paul became involved in designing the shapes, at what stage would this have occurred; would Salvador take this lying down?   Is it not possible that both were involved, if so, it could have been quite volatile!!!!!

The scenario of both of them sitting down with Mrs Moncrieff discussing designs is ummmmmmmh difficult to picture!!


Offline chopin-liszt

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8541
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2011, 12:48:08 PM »
They could have been doing it with her one at a time, behind each others' backs!  >:D
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.


Offline Frank

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 9420
  • Gender: Male
    • Glass history
    • Gateway
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2011, 01:22:59 PM »
...Salvador and Paul have a huge falling out in the 30's over Salvador's remarriage....


Paul just stopped talking to his father, that did not stop them working together.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
Glass Zoo - Glass Study.COM
Commercial Czech


Offline Gary

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 622
  • Gender: Male
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2011, 08:29:38 PM »
Frank what does the new research by I Turner say on the subject of the designers of Monart shapes.
Until some new information comes forward my belief is that Salvador was the main collaberator with Mrs Moncrieff. At no point did I say Paul had no input in the designed stage, but I have until now, never seen his name mentioned in the context of Monart shape design (pre 1939) in any literature I have read.
I would be pleased to be proved wrong or correct or anywhere in between, as whatever the outcome, would mean one more fact about Monart is verified.
Gary 


Offline Frank

  • Author
  • Members
  • ***
  • Posts: 9420
  • Gender: Male
    • Glass history
    • Gateway
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2011, 09:24:44 PM »
I will need to get in touch with Ian, but with site problems and life problems it is added to a to-do list. But it needs to get published.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
Glass Zoo - Glass Study.COM
Commercial Czech


Offline millarart

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 696
Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 07:31:58 AM »
They could have been doing it with her one at a time, behind each others' backs!  >:D
tut tut Sue :thud:
who needs Revatio when you have a collection of Monart

 



This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand