Author Topic: Monart discontinued shapes ?  (Read 3190 times)

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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 08:00:57 PM »
The two links below are photos that I took of the Monart lighting catalogues that are in Perth Museum. These are the catalogues that I Turner based his well written and informative article on Monart lighting in the The Journal of The Glass Association.
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBFvKhm
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBFVL9y
Gary


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2012, 11:50:20 PM »
Now who were Ramsey, did it say in the article... not to hand.

Really ought to get Lighting sorted on Ysartglass... time. Upto my neck in updating software on sites. But soon... say 2 months... be back in productive work!
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 09:33:13 AM »
No mention of the firm Ramsay in I Turner article, but I did come across these snippets of information on the web. Which maybe!! the firm that supplied Moncrieff Glassworks with the Krinks light fittings.
 I am at a bit of a dead end uncovering any more info on the S Krinks of Birmingham, can any member give me a clue where I should look next.

This notice was posted in The London Gazette, 11th of November 1892

NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership heretofore
subsisting between us the undersigned,
Samuel Krinks and John Pyne, carrying on business
together in co-partnership, at 235 and 236, Icknield street,
in the city of Birmingham, as* Electro-Plate
Manufacturers, under the style or firm of Krinks and
Pyne has this day been dissolved by mutual consent.
The business will henceforth' be carried on by the said
Samuel Krinks alone, by whom all debts due to and
owing from the said late firm will be received and paid.
—Dated this 3rd day of November, 1892.
SAMUEL KRINKS.
JOHN PYNE.

This was posted in The London Gazette 15th October 1968

Name of Company: SAMUEL KRINKS & SONS LIMITED.
Nature of Business: METAL STAMPERS AND PRESSERS.
Address of Registered - Office: Soho Pool Works,
Hocktey,, Birmingham 19.
Liquidator's Name and Address: John Albert! Evans,
38 Great Charles Street, Birmingham 3.
Date of Appointment: 23rd September 1968.
By whom Appointed: Members.
Gary



Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2012, 10:56:12 PM »
Birmingham city archives are your best bet, but you might get more director names from company records which must exist if it finished that late... but I cannot see it going anywhere as Moncrieff's would unlikely have been a major customer. Ramsey on the other hand were possibly have been a more local firm and you might find something in the Moncrieff archive in the Alexander library in Perth. I never managed to get to that collection... potential goldmine.
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 08:42:28 PM »
Thanks Frank for the input, I will follow up them leads, you will have to pay my fare as Alexander library is in Perth Australia ;). It is A.K Bell library Perth Scotland, I did call in once to find out what Moncrieff archives, I was informed they some material. The items that did interest me was that they had material on the Moncrieff workforce starting and leaving dates.
I must follow that up pretty soon.
Gary


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 09:45:14 PM »
 :o Alexander K Bell then...  ;D but yes that is the one... just the sort of data that should be on Scotland's Glass... so we get those e-mails "X McJones was my grandfather, I still have x, y, z from Moncrieff would you like some pictures."

I love getting really personal anecdotes...

I had several planned trips to that archive, all fell through. Ask them if you can scan the lot for the site  :D

I have a chunk of Moncrieff archive I guess that should go there too as I lost contact with the owner. It was his intention to donate. Most of it is on-line. On SG and Ysartglass.com
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2012, 08:39:31 PM »
I have some reservations with this paragraph from Frank earlier in this thread "Also bear in mind that Paul began working with his father as apprentice at E&L in 1915, then at Cochran 1916-? and with Moncrieff from 1922 so by the time he joined Moncrieff he would be near the end of his 7 year apprenticeship. Unfortunately his memory was not detailed at that point and the duo may have worked elsewhere, as is believed, in Glasgow before 1922".
 Most of this is based on hearsay and is not backed up with documentation of Paul working full time at E&L or Cochran.
In 1915 Paul was 11 years old. The school leaving age in Scotland in 1915 was 14 years old. The Education (Scotland) Act 1872 made compulsory for all children between 5 and 13, in 1901 the school leaving was raised to 14. This would Paul could not leave school until 1918.
Salvador, Paul and Augustine joined Moncieff glassworks in 1921, which would mean Paul was a third year apprentice. Paul spent his first 18 months at the Shore Road factory before he started working with his father at St Catherine Road factory.
Gary


Offline Frank

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2012, 09:35:53 PM »
Twas direct from Paul. Both Turner and Clarke accounts tie up and were from separate face to face interviews. About as detailed as one is likely to find. I would guess school rules were lighter for immigrants plus his working pre-Moncrieff was 'informal'. I never did establish when Cochran closed down... no-one seems to know... although Airlie implies 1922. But Paul was quite certain that they worked at other glassworks between Cochran and Moncrieff. Also it is not known if they did stay until St Rollox closed, as assumed here and there. Many of the glassworks in Glasgow area are undocumented - apart from the odd photograph pops up now and again just raising more questions. I guess we have to wait on the next Turnbull publication for a scholarly study of the period.

Moncrieff's Tomey works (I assume you mean by Shore Road) was primarily bottles but also sorely undocumented. Paul's apprenticeship at Moncrieff was formalised so perhaps there is info on that in the archive too? Assuming Salvador was teaching light bulb envelope blowing at the other factories as he did at E&L short stays in multiple works would make a lot of sense as this was vital work to most glassworks at that point in time as demand outstripped supply.

But never hesitate to question the Status Quo, little is written in stone  ;)
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 10:25:23 PM »
Quote from yourself Frank.
My laws of glass research. :-)
Worst Sources that must be corroborated elsewhere:
1. Colleagues at the factory - each will tell you a different story of the same event.
2. Company PR material - no surprises.
3. First hand account by the glass-maker concerned my under line
Augustine, Vincent and Antoine all started working at the age of 14 (school leaving age) so I see no reason the Education (Scotland) Act 1872 amended 1901 would  apply to the three other brothers and not Paul.
You also say Paul's pre Moncrieff was informal does this imply not working full time in any glasswork pre Moncrieff's.

It does not say in the Moncrieff works ledger which building Paul and Augustine worked in, as the had two buildings in the harbour area of Perth in 1921.
There is a massive amount of archival material relating to Tomeys shore works at AK Bell library.
Gary


Offline Carolyn Preston

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Re: Monart discontinued shapes ?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 11:10:49 PM »
Just to play devil's advocate ('cuz lord knows I have researched none of this) but could Paul have not worked part-time at the beginning of his apprenticeship (had an in with the boss you know) so that he could also have gone to school at the same time?

Carolyn

 

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