Author Topic: Ysart Bros odd cane  (Read 985 times)

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Offline Roger H

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Ysart Bros odd cane
« on: December 02, 2011, 11:24:53 PM »
Hi, where do you think this cane fits in to things, blue cane. Regards Roger.


Offline Roger H

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 09:16:07 PM »
Well if nobody has any idea I guess I will have to answer the question myself. The cane doesnt really belong in the time period that the weight was made and was from the previous century. Roger.


Offline SophieB

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 10:10:27 PM »
Hi Roger,

I am not sure that I am following this... :huh2:

Are you saying that the blue cane is 19th c? 


SophieB


Offline Roger H

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 11:01:24 PM »
Yep, dont know how they came by it, but thats my theory. Every single cane from the 19th century couldn't have been used could they? The cane mould is completely out of sync with the rest of the weight. Roger.


Offline KevinH

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 01:38:16 PM »
Interesting theory, Roger. Do you have any information to back it up?

The only cases I know of that might fit with that idea are:
1. The cup made by Salvador (said to be made in 1923), held in Perth Museum & Art Gallery
2. A Monart Ware vase that was previously in the Ian Turner collection
Both of those items have canes which appear to be rather different in form to the more regularly seen "Salvador canes", and I have wondered if they may have been canes that Salvador took with him when he moved from France to Scotland. But I have no details that can prove it.

Below is a reference photo of part of a bottle which has (as well as at least one cane known to be from the so-called Salvador group) a cane of the same structure as the one you highlight. Although unusual, it is a form of cane that I have occasionally seen in other Salvador / YB work.
KevinH


Offline tropdevin

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 03:21:57 PM »

***

If we are talking about the dark blue cane at about 6 o'clock in the first image, it has similarities to the canes used by Richardson.  So does the one Kev H refers to, for that matter.

In the image below (part of a Richardson closepack) there are several 8 point star canes of broadly the same shape as your, and at 9 o'clock is a cane with 'looped' points, a little like the one to which Kev H refers.

I am not suggesting that Salvador used Richardson canes - merely flagging up that broadly similar canes would have been around in the UK at the time he was making the weights, so it was a possibility.

Alan

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Offline Roger H

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 05:15:07 PM »
Hi, the cane I was thinking about is in Bob Halls World paperweights page 81. This in turn could have travelled from France to England via a migrant worker to be in the Bacchus weight.  The cane in the weight I have is very well formed and that is one reason I considered it to be a none early Ysart Bros manufactured cane and as there are not many examples of them in Ysart weights perhaps only a handfull were obtained?
     Roger.


Offline tropdevin

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 06:16:20 PM »
***

Hi Roger.

I suggest taking some of Bob Hall's book with a pinch of salt. IMHO, no more than 3/4 of the 'Bacchus' weights were made by Bacchus, for example.  And Queen's Head canes are pretty rare in Bacchus - not an indicator that a weight was made by them. And Gillinder didn't work for Bacchus, etc.  I think it is a very good book - but like all reference books, it is now out of date, and thinking and understanding have moved on over the years.

The weight you refer to on page 81 looks like a Richardson piece to me - but without measuring the density it is hard to say much more. But I don't see any canes in it that need to have come from France, rather than Stourbridge.

Alan
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Offline KevinH

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 10:19:50 PM »
There is certainly a strong correlation between Roger's "blue white" cane, Alan's "9 o'clock blue white" cane and the "blue white" one in the weight mentioned from Bob's book. And yes, the form is essentially the same as the cane in my inkwell.

I would agree with Alan, that if cane "travelling" occurred, rather than Salvador making his own versions, then it is more likely to have been from Stourbridge to Scotland rather from France. And I think that early-ish 20th century for these type of canes is more likely than 19th century.

Good talking point, though. :)
KevinH


Offline Roger H

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Re: Ysart Bros odd cane
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 11:06:29 PM »
 Well that was interesting eh. Nevertheless it appears to be an imported cane to Ysart Bros and as you say probably more likely to come from within the UK around the 1920s? 

 

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