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Author Topic: Red marbled vase with enamel, Loetz Marmoriertes Carneol? or Harrach? other?  (Read 3600 times)

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Offline flying free

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I've searched extensively on this.  I can match the decor and the shape of the foot and the body to a Loetz Marmoriertes vase, but not the neck of the vase - the nearest I can find has a slight bulge in the neck near the body.  I also can't match the enamel decoration, all those I've found have a different type of decoration.  I am pretty sure the enamel on this one is supposed to be white with an ochre matt goldy outline - i.e. I don't think think any gilt has worn off it.  Hard to show but in between each of the horizontal panels just under the rim there are lots of gilded dots or rather gilded dashes. There is a gilt band just under and around the rim worn with age and a gilt band around the foot.
Mould blown there is no pontil mark on the base but there is a mark which I cannot read and that looks to have been enamelled on.  The base photo makes the swirls look darker than they are as I was trying to highlight the mark. The rim is cut and polished bevelled on both side and then gilded (worn).  The interior is white.  Not uranium glass either inside or out.
There looks to have been another small mark below this as well.  
I was wondering if this isn't Loetz Carneol perhaps it may be Harrach?  
Measures 20cm (7 14/16") tall by 9cm widest just over 3 1/2").
any thoughts?    and thanks  :sun:
m


Offline Mike M

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Hi

I think you are on the right track

It's Loetz or Harrach but it is very hard to tell difference - with no pontil mark and a cold cut top I'd definitely lean towards Loetz

cheers

Mike


Offline flying free

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Thank you Mike. :sun: 
m


Offline johnphilip

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I believe Loetz also!!! and have just looked in Collectable Bohemian glass by Robert and Deborah truit there are several very similar pieces on pages  86 and 87 as Loetz .  Mike is well up in this field . jp  - ps  It also says by 1890 the glass had a pink or white lining


Offline flying free

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Thanks JP  :sun: I managed to find a picture of page 87 where there are vases that, as you say, are remarkably similar in shape.  I'm pretty sure it is Loetz, so I'll keep an eye out for a match on the enamel variation as it is different to those I've seen.  I'm also curious as to the enamel mark on the base.. I wonder if it is the decorators mark? As I remember the Carneol version is dated to 1880 so your comment about the reference to the interior  being white by 1890.  I recall seeing one that did not have this interior and there was a  questioning as to whether it was Loetz marmoriertes.  Perhaps the reference to the interior means that prior to this they were made without the white or pink and just clear.
thanks again for taking the time to look for me.
m

Offline TxSilver

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Looks more like Loetz to me. It is more red than ones I have had, but still looks like them.
Anita
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Offline flying free

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Thank you also Anita  :)   I have found a few in this red and I am convinced, I was just curious about the enamel.  Perhaps a different decorating house or different period from the ones I've seen that all seem to have similar patterns of enamel on a grey/brown background?
JP, thanks again and apologies for my garbled (interrupted by child) message above.  What I meant was your comment was interesting regarding the white interior as I'd seen a query somewhere on one that was just clear on the interior, so I wondered if they originally made these without the cased pink and white interior.
m

Offline TxSilver

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Your remark sent me to my files, and I was surprised to find that I did have a vase as red as yours. I attached some pictures of it. It had the pinkish interior and was painted with gold enamel. The ones I had sported either a heavily fired enamel collar or gold enamel. The ones with gold are diverse in the decoration. They all tend to have the "collared" look, as yours does.

I've sometimes wondered if my Loetz vases will end up being Harrachs.
Anita
San Marcos Art Glass
Visit the Murano Zoo
http://sites.google.com/site/muranozoo/

Offline flying free

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Anita that is glorious  :) I was pretty convinced mine is a Loetz piece from what I've found, but slightly confused about the enamelled mark on the bottom to be honest (not that I know much as my 'collection' of Loetz is only just out of the 'mistake' area   ;D and my knowledge of them and Harrach is non existent).  The only marks I've come across are the ones on the Loetz site and the mark doesn't seem to be similar to Harrach marks as far as I can tell.  On the pic I found of page 87 (I presume it is Truitts, I could only find a picture with the page number on - and thanks JP for the info) there is a bowl/vase on there that is  similar in shape to yours on the body but slightly different on the neck shape.  Likewise there is a vase where the foot and body of the vase are the same as mine but the neck on mine is more similar to another shaped vase bottom left.  What is slightly confusing about the written piece accompanying the picture that I also found, is that they say by 1890 the interiors were white or pink and the marbling white bits were uranium on the exterior -  mine isn't.  I implied from that, that if it had a white interior it would be uranium on the exterior but perhaps either that info isn't correct  anymore or I've assumed incorrectly :-\
m

Offline TxSilver

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m, now I am wondering about both your and my vase. Mine is not marked on bottom, but the pattern is so similar. The Harrach project has a "signature" with a P.number a little over halfway down the page at http://glasscollector.net/ProjectHarrach/ProjectHarrachGlassID.html. The P. looks a lot like yours to me, though yours does not have the numbers over and under it. Harrach signatures were variable (or absent). I hope someone can provide more insight.

It will not surprise me if my vase turns out to be Harrach.
Anita
San Marcos Art Glass
Visit the Murano Zoo
http://sites.google.com/site/muranozoo/

 

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