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Author Topic: Red marbled vase with enamel, Loetz Marmoriertes Carneol? or Harrach? other?  (Read 7983 times)

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Offline flying free

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Thank you for sharing :)

Unfortunately neither of those vases are the same colour as mine, nor the same shape, nor do  they have the foot as mine does and nor can I match the enamelling  :(

In colour and decor my vase is a match for the vase in Truitt's under Loetz page 87 no 1 Carneol.  Regarding the enamelling, the little 5petal flower and leaf sprig is like the one on page 87 Loetz 2. Onyx. I'll find my other reference for th enamelling and post it here.
m

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I'm no further forward on matching the shape of my vase to either Harrach or Loetz so far, but further to some discussion comments earlier in the thread:
 ‘… I've seen very few pieces of Loetz that had any type of numbers at all on the base, but the few examples I've seen tended to be Roman numerals on Victorian era Loetz glass. ‘  on page 4 of this thread

And

‘Loetz never marked vases like this. Loetz designations had roman numerals and then a number. Sometimes their earlier pieces just had four numbers in gold. ‘  on page 5 of this thread

For future reference, I just wanted to add some links to a Loetz Octopus vase  that is on sale at the moment.
 There is a very clear picture of the base and on the base:
- It is marked in  whitish enamel rather than gilding.
- It is marked 'Patent 9159' with the word 'Patent' written in script and sitting a line above the numbers inside a polished pontil mark.

I'm assuming since it is a patent mark that the mark belongs to Loetz and refers to the decor and/or shape rather than the enamelling on the vase, which, in this case, actually only has gilded decoration on the background of the vase as far as I can see, and no white enamelling on it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wonderful-Loetz-Octopus-Vase-in-Great-Condition-1885-88-/300869309786

Unfortunately the link will disappear in time but hopefully this will remain as a reference.
I'll keep searching for a shape match :)

m

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see my most recent post above and
Just to add, unless I'm missing something and it's quite possible, I've been through Truitt's Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 and there is no piece in there in this Marmoriertes/Karneol/Onyx under Harrach.
And neither is there a piece in the Harrach From Neuwelt to the Whole World book.  I'm a bit mystified.  If Truitt's photographed pieces from the Harrach museum/depository and there are none in the book, and the actual Harrach book doesn't contain any pieces either why would that be?

If I've missed one and anyone has the books to check, please do let me know.

m

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Sorry no match yet for the shape for either Harrach or Loetz, but I just wanted to add a Loetz vase that is marked with numbers
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/69054-loetz-medici-with-vienna-secession-silve

m

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Offline azelismia

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that marking is specific to pieces with silver overlay from that company. it's the silver overlay makers markings not loetz markings. the way this is marked is typical of Harrach. I am 100 percent sure of this. I have so many Harrach pieces marked with P.xxx and i have seen so many more marked this way.

If this is loetz I'll eat my hat :)

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It would be really helpful if I could find Harrach pattern number 688 or 588 to check.
Presumably the pattern numbers for this period do exist so maybe one day it will surface.

What I am most surprised by is that I can find no marmoriertes in the Harrach(From Neuwelt to the Whole World, 2012) book , or the Truitt's book (1880-1940 , 1995) to compare to, despite the Truitt's book containing a double page spread of Loetz marmoriertes vases.

Unfortunately, Brian hasn't returned to the thread with any comment from his visit to Harrach of two years ago  and the two vases you very kindly showed from your pictures don't match mine in shape or colour.
I'll continue to keep looking and post if I find any matches.

edited to add:
Just thought I'd add some other links from CW  that show the variations, so others who don't have the books can see some examples:

1)This pair have been id as Loetz Malachite and have white decoration on the rim that reminds me of mine, it looks as though it has gilt outlines to the white as though the white might have originally been gilded and mine has this as well:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/103406-pair-of-malachite-loetz-marmoriertes

2) In the right hand picture on this thread, the vase on the very left with the large collar decoration has white enamelling flower and leaf design that is remarkably similar to mine.  Is that identified as a Harrach vase?
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/100197-loetz-carneol--all-shapes-and-sizes

3)  http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/64732-marmoriertes-glass--loetz-and-others
from CW a group of Loetz pieces on the left, Loetz in the middle 2 and on the right a group of Harrach pieces.  However there seems to be a post at the bottom of that thread where the poster Steve says
'Hi Warren
Have the middle piece in photo 4 (pink/blue/brown with ? Hellenic key) with one of the characteristic Islamic Loetz finishes (IV/103 I think) ... and I also think there is one amidst the Carneols in Passau ...
Cheers'

Is that one in question? or do I not understand the posters point and to what he is referring, which is entirely possible?

4)  http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/63604-loetz-marmoriertes-vase-carneol-ca
A Loetz Carneol vase with minimal decoration around the neck

5)  http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/90703-harrach-marmoriertes-karneol-vase
This one has a polished pontil mark




m

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