Author Topic: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?  (Read 1751 times)

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Offline Sarahw

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Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« on: January 08, 2012, 12:24:37 AM »
Hello, I'm new here and also green as grass as a glass collector. Some of my Spode got smashed in a tragic plate rack accident and I have been looking to replace some of my losses. At a live auction house the other evening a small set of seven clear glass dishes (dinner sized plates) caught my attention...and my fancy. They looked as if they had rims made of ice. They were heavy, in perfect condition, and  of higher quality than I am used to seeing in pressed glass - very clear and clean.  

I cannot find any for sale ANYWHERE and next to no information about P&p plates.  The icy rim is "Alaska" ish but not a perfect match I don't think. A major replacements site had none on offer but did have a picture and a (possibly website internal) designation of the pattern as PEI11. Other than some coasters in the Alaska pattern (not identical) I saw no P&P plates at all anywhere. I assume from the mrk that they are from the late 60s forward, probably from the seventies - Perhaps later than that. Does anyone know anything about these plates?

I thought about them all evening as the parade of  chests and chairs and lamps went to hammer, and kept goin over to the table "just to look"  and finally could resist them no more -  the auctioneer noted a mark but coudl not identify it and I didn't recognize it either.

I did manage to identify the mark later on as the molded Janus-form P  (the curving loop over a conical stem) and in the process have been sucked into glassworld.  I LOVE the examples I found of p&p and even learned ( a very little)  bit about other glass makers and categories of glass as well.  Mission 1 - get the missing eighth plate

I paid $40 bucks for the seven plates Nd they were certainly worth it to me and I obviously wanted them more than anyone else present.  I'm wondering I'f that was retail ballpark, though; they don't appear to be ubiquitous but then there might be little demand.  I want them, though, and They will be present at my Titanic party in April.

I'd attach pictures but the buttons do not seem to work for me.


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 06:14:02 PM »
Here are some pictures - the plate, the mark and a larger version of the plate.   Apparently my problem before is that  there are no attachments possible if posting from an ipad.


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 06:40:37 PM »
Any tips on finding old catalogs of Peill and Putzler glass, or mark lexicons that might aid me in finding information about the plates pictured above? 

I've realized since that the plates are likely lead crystal.  They are so clear and so heavy.  The cut edges are smooth, and when held up to the light there is a prismatic effect.   

Assigning value is difficult, as I've not found any on the internet after many days of searching in several languages and venues.


Offline Anik R

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 07:53:47 PM »
Hello Sarah and welcome to the GMB. :)  

Very attractive plates, though I'm afraid I can't give you the information you're looking for.  Please be patient... someone will surely come along and point you in the right direction.

P.S.  Pamela has got a wonderful site which offers catalogues from many makers, including Peill.  Though your plates are not there, it's a great site to add to your favourites.  http://www.glas-musterbuch.de
My Etsy shop with Czech glass: CzechGlassCollector


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 05:03:28 PM »
A little information,  and a little more mystery to figure out.     A generic search for crystal plates eventually yielded more examples of this plate:
however,  they are listed as Tiffany and Co.'s "rock cut"  pattern.   The series is still made but in a limited number of pieces (no more plates),  and I cannot find reliable information about the true  introduction of the pattern to the Tiffany line. 

Many resellers note a "made in Germany" sticker on their items,  which is certainly consistent with a P&P connection.

I have seen the pattern attributed to Van Day Truex,  who was Tiffany's director of design during it's 60's heyday; he was largely responsible for shaping the update of Tiffany's aesthetic in china, crystal and flatware.  His mid century tenure was between 1955 and 1967;  another person took over the position for about a dozen years, and he was at the end of that time (1978) coaxed out of retirement to take over the position again - though he sought a replacement nearly right away-  he died in April 1979.

I have seen two casual sources claim this pattern was introduced in 1994 - one a ebay-type reseller and one poster in this forum in a 2008 post.  I actually don't know myself but tend to doubt this if Truex designed or commission the design of this pattern.   Perhaps certain pieces were introduced or the pattern re-introduced at that time?   I would welcome any information settling the question.

Another interesting point.  My Peill and Putzler marked plates have NO Tiffany mark.  Most resellers are quick to point out the rather conspicuous etched "Tiffany and Co."  mark on their "rock cut" wares.  There is no such mark on my plates, only the molded P&P mark in the image upthread.   Some do note a sticker with "made in Germany" but NONE ever note the molded P&P mark.  I have scoured what pictured of the underside of plates and cups their are, and have not detected the molded mark - though it might be there and the images simply not revealing.

So when WERE my plates made.  Did P&P sell them under its own label?  Were they a P&P design selected by Van Day Truex,  or did he create the design himself for Tiffany?     I certainly would like to know.  Any sliver of information on any point would be welcome.   


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 05:07:30 PM »
I am actually wondering,  if Truex did design this pattern,  himself or in collaboration with P&P designers, whether it might have had some influence on the 60s/70s German "ice glass" trend with organic forms.  The reverse might also be true - that the German designers simply had an aesthetic that Truex had some sympathy for,  and that he helped push this trend in America in his capacity as taste-maker.


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 05:16:37 PM »
Here is a link to the Replacements.com entry regarding the Tiffany rock-cut pattern:

http://search.replacements.com/texis/search/main.html?query=tiffany+rock+cut&pr=Meta_20120109&prox=page&rorder=500&rprox=500&rdfreq=0&rwfreq=0&rlead=1000&rdepth=0&sufs=1&order=ClientCount-d&mode=&cq=&jump=10&sk=.10.&dropXSL=html


They also list active manufacture as 1994 - forward,  but again I doubt this is correct if Truex is responsible for the design.


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 05:44:44 PM »
My impression was correct - that 1994 date is just flat wrong.   I still don't have the date of design or first manufacture,  but John Loring, Truex's  successor at Tiffany in the late seventies, wrote a book viewable in snippets in Google books called "The Tiffany Wedding"  in 1988, which references the "rock cut" pattern (apparently in pictured tablesettings)  and crediting Truex with its design  (although I'm still not sure if Truex was the one and only designer,  or a collaborator/commissioner/selector).


Offline flying free

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 06:40:51 PM »
Sarah you're doing a sterling sleuthing job and there are some of us here listening   :)
I often find I start threads and add to them without a reply for a while, then someone will come along with some information a good while later.  So please don't be disheartened no one has added too much yet  :sun:
I think your plates are beautiful.  I'm not so sure about eating off glass plates, but using them as serving plates would be fab.
m


Offline Sarahw

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Re: Peill & Putzler Dinner plates - any info or history on these?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 09:20:05 PM »
Hi ff -  I fell in love with the plates... and now Peill & Putzler in general.   The plates do make nice chargers for dessert plates. I think I'm going to serve maracarons or an Ice-bergy looking meringues on the plates at  my April Titanic gathering.  Cakes that look like  little up-ended ships would probably be going too far.  :)

With Google books searches (that are frustrating because most are just snippets of out of print books) I did manage to find a Tiffany listing of items available for purchase that pushes  Truex's  rock-cut pattern back to 1983. 

I tried to find some Tiffany blue books but haven't found any that have been scanned online.   When that failed I just decided to write Tiffany customer service for information on the pattern.   I don't know if they will answer.   I asked about the year of introduction,  and whether they were designed by Truex, and so forth.  I mentioned mine only have the German mark.

 

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