Topic: caithness yellow fish paperweight dont think so

[Roger H]

      Just had a look through my old photos.  PH cane on top and 35/50 underneath. Cant put the photo up because its 500kb. Wonder whose got that now!!!!!! Roger.
        Aha, just realised where the confusion arose. When I said Caithness or Selkirk I ment the Marbries, because of the top cane I cant tell the difference, PH working for Caithness with PY at one time and all that.

[pooleandpaperweights]

Marbrie on the left is July 2010, made for me by Peter when we visited him and spent 4 hours watching that and a weight by Andrew being made.
One on the right is a Selkirk one.  Peter has a box of cane slices for this purpose, suspect most are very old and date back to Selkirk days.....

Ian

[Roger H]

     Thanks Ian, thats clarified that one. Bought a weight from Peter when we were up there June 2011, the quality is very good isnt it. Roger.

[CML]

Referring to a book I have Peter Holmes and William Mason  were just learning the trade in the 60's at Caithness

[Roger H]

Yes and what better trainer could they have had than Paul Ysart himself. The photo is a 2005 Peter holmes creation and shows the training and influence from Paul.  Jewels on blue.
            Regards Roger

[CML]

 Didn't Peter Holmes break away from Caithness to start Selkirk? Selkirk is Caithness' biggest competitor. I guess that is why the early 60"s Caithness paperweights are valuable since  Holmes and Manson were just learning the trade under Ysart at Caithness.

[tropdevin]

***

Hi CML

There are some useful articles on the 'family tree' of Scottish paperweight makers that set out who worked with whom, and when, and what companies they set up, how long they lasted, and so on. Dave Webber wrote two in the PCA Bulletin (2000 and 2003).

Peter Holmes and Willie Manson left Caithness to set up their own companies, and Peter Holmes subsequently left Selkirk and set up Scottish Borders Art Glass.  Similarly John Deacons left Perthshire to set up his own company, which he still runs. Caithness went into administration in 2006, taking Selkirk down with it, and was taken over by Dartington Glass, and now operates as a much smaller company.

Whether early Caithness paperweights are valuable depends very much which design they are (and don't believe the Charlton catalogue prices - most are wildly optimistic).  There are no 'early 1960s' Caithness paperweights, incidentally - the first ones were issued in 1969.

Alan

[pooleandpaperweights]

Peter set up Selkirk in 1977, and made some weights from October onwards.  I still aim to find one dated 1977, though I am suspicious they didn't date them at first as I have multiple early weights listed as made in 1978 with no date......

Someone ask Peter when they next see him!

Ian

[Derek]

Hi CML

A couple of slight corrections to Alans post.

Willie Manson left Caithness in 1971 to go and work with Paul Ysart at Harland.
When this folded in 1975  he went back to Caithness Glass and was there until 1979 when Graham Brown an ex- managing director of Caithness financed a craft village at Killwinning which included a glass studio which Willie ran for him - it was here that the Scotia brand paperweights were made.

The craft village lasted only a short time ( less than 2 years) as most of the units apart from the glass studio were losing money. Willie then returned to working for Caithness, although this time it was on a freelance basis. Finally in 1997 he left Caithness to set up  his own studio in Friarton Road which ran until 2004.

Willie then worked briefly with John Deacons before setting up another studio on an industrial estate in the area of Perth known as "The Shore" and only a few yards away from where the Ysart Brothers/Vasart factory stood. This studio is still running.

John Deacons left Perthshire to set up J Glass in premises opposite his house in 1978. This operation lasted until 1983. The was then a gap of approximately a year before John started a small studio in a converted cow byre attached to his house. This traded initially as Crieff Glass before becoming Deacons Glass. This operation is still trading today.

I was just going to post this when I saw that Ian had also made a post !

A little more information on Selkirk. Peter Holmes left with Ron Hutchinson who at the time was the Caithness Sales director. This happened in 1977 and initially Selkirk Glass was set up in a small rented workshop in Linglie Mill. They moved to the large modern factory on the outskirts of Selkirk in 2000. This factory was organised on identical lines to Caithness with ample parking to attract tourists and coach parties, a viewing area, factory shop and café.

Selkirk, at their peak, employed 40 workers and produced 25,000 weights a year.  Peter however soon realised that the scale of this operation meant that most of his time was spent on administration leaving little time to be creative which was the reason he left Caithnessin the first place! So, in 2002, he sold his share of the business to Ron Hutchinson and set up Scottish Borders Art Glass. 

Best regards

Derek

[pooleandpaperweights]

Just so the historians know about this and it doesn't confuse people in years to come.  When Selkirk folded the stock was sold off.  In the stock were some weights made by Peter.  They were brought by a well known dealer at the factory, and she got them signed by Peter in 2005 and I think they are dated 2005.  I have one somewhere in my collection, so will check at some point, but the point is, there are a few weights signed by Peter made at Selkirk but dated years after he left......

Ian