Venini Glass Book & Glass Books in general

[paradisetrader]

Venini Glass: 1921-1986 by Anna Venini Diaz de Santillana
Can anyone recommend this book ?

[Bernard C]

Peter:

As no-one seems to be willing to respond, here is my 2d worth.

On the plus side, it is not her first book on Venini, according to Jackson, so she should know what she is doing, although she since appears to have married into Spanish aristocracy.

On the minus side, I am wary about spending more than about GBP 20 on a book that could be full of pictures of one-off studio pieces and other specials, very unlikely to turn up at car boot sales.   Such books have a hard time cost justifying themselves to me.

If it is mainly devoted to standard production output, then it worth almost any price - one good unsigned purchase will justify it.

How about borrowing it from your local library first to have a look.

Regards, Bernard C.  

[paradisetrader]

Thank you Bernard
As a relative newbie still I have been reluctant to voice those opinions - even thought I've thought them - for fear of being accused of being unwilling to invest in researching my glass passion.

It's true that I'd prefer to spend whatever money I have available on glass rather than glass books but this year I have invested probably more in books than in glass !!

Yes I a have a couple of books that, while they do have valuable information, also have many wasted pages and double spreads on items only to be found in museums or those for which the author can easily optain picture reproduction rights, which is why I'm being more cautious now.

Library - I've already started to look into this option. I did visit my local library about 2 years ago and found, as you say, a pathetic selection. Your advice on inter-library loans is helpful and coincidentally just last night I tapped into the COPAC database to check on the availability of a book.

There is one full of museum pieces which I dont't regret buying - Waltrud Neuwirth's Glas Verre Vetri I 1950-60 which is basically the Murano catalogue of the Austrain Museum of Applied art - a fascinating but modest tome which I fortunately got for significantly less than the original £32.95 price tag in 1990. Yes the original till receipt is still inside. But that is the only one which cost less than £20 in my growing glass book collection.

Indeed the reason why I was asking about this particular book is that its avaliable now on Amazon at a significant discount and Venini being something in the order of the Rolls Royce of Murano I felt I should have something on it - just in case I accidentally come across a serious "find"....you never know.

And before you tell me off about buying online - there is no "local" bookshop in my High Street unless you count Blackstones the other side of The Ministry. I may just as well cycle another 15 minutes to Charing X Road which ain't what it used to be either.

By the by did you see my book recommendations for your pewter ?
Peter

[Bernard C]

Peter,

As my above reply looked like the output of a real whinger, I deleted the rambling bits.

Suffice it to say that, the last time I looked, my local reference library had more shelf space devoted to crested china than to glass, once you exclude those dusty old tomes on C17 drinking glasses.

... and I don't tell people off for not patronising their High Street shops - I just point out that when you add in travel or postage costs they're probably cheaper, and, if you don't support them, you might find them all closed and boarded up one day.   Sadly, we've recently lost our local jeweller through retirement, which is causing me some anguish as he was wizard at getting my Bagley clocks working properly again, only once ever having to resort to a full replacement mechanism.   Unless I can find someone else, I will have to resort to a dunk in WD40 (the clock mechanism, not me) and a prayer!

I've just found your pewter recommendations.   Thanks, I had missed them.

Did you see my reply on "Sticky Topics"?   Last item on p1.

Finally, apropos of nothing, from Miller's Glass Antiques Checklist - revised edition:

"... the island of Murano, a short distance from the Venetian lagoon ..."

Where?   Half a mile inland?   Also, on the same page:

"... at the end of the 16thC 3,000 of the 7,000 Muranese were involved with the (glass) industry."

I think it needs a "directly" added to make sense.   Once you set foot on the island you are involved, even if you are a greengrocer or a priest.

Bernard C.   :lol:

[Ivo]

hi guys
just chiming in to agree with the above. I don't know the book in question but it would most liklely be more expensive photography of the same items. I have "Gli Artisti di Venini" (Electa) and "Venetian Glass"(Charta) as well as "Venini Glass Objects"(Venini) - and they all cover the same ground, share the same (factory) photos, contain the same information. It would be quite OK if you specialised in Venini glass - but personally I never see any for sale for love or money. And the unsigned ones you're after do not appear in any book. The good news is that glass books do not go off - they seem to keep their price very well in the long run. Always check for remaindered ones - I ran into 20th century factory glass in Frankfurt the other day...

[Frank]

My Turn  :twisted:

The large publishers and booksellers created the problems by fighting over discounts, combined with the effects of modern accountancy that penalises stock holding. Accordingly publishers generally sell a book at cover for one year and then remainder. If it sells out within a year it gets reprinted. Costs are saved by using stock photos and cheap acidy paper. Most of the glossy titles are commissioned from professional writers with little or no knowledge of the subject. The large booksellers dictate the prices.

Against this you have the specialist publishers and booksellers. And of course the impact of eBay.

My own title 'Ysart Glass' was designed and produced to be a long life reference for collectors. Everything was specially photographed, the book was printed on Acid free paper and I personally supervised the colour calibration at the start of the printing. Overall production cost was about £25 per copy, 3,000 copies, and initial cover price was £69. Some 700 copies were sold in that first year. Unfortunately due to a recession the banks withdrew finance and the printers could not be paid. I lost nearly 2,000 copies, which were bought from the printers by Caithness Glass at a knockdown price, and they remaindered some. I bought a lot of the remaindered copies myself at about £8 a copy. Now the supply has run out and second hand copies sell between 100 and 400 pounds. Needless to say I went bust, though rather than go bankrupt I worked and paid off most of the 7-figure debt I had built up. Two other titles in the pipeline got stopped. One of which later got published by an American publisher, also gone bust now, in a much poorer quality than had I finished it.

So, if you want good well-researched titles of relatively small market subjects please be prepared to pay for them. The value will be certain.

I think that any book by Waltraud Neuwirth is worth the money as they are well researched and detailed. Of the expensive titles, the Bloch-Dermant's are works of art in themselves.

At the other end of the price band there are gems to be found too, well researched and packed with info if not with pictures for example Ivo's Glass Fact File is an absolute gem and one of my most referred to books.

For selecting - look at the intro's, biblio's and acknowledgements to get an impression of the quality of content. Were editors or consultants used, are the editors glass 'names'. Do the images come from private collections or auction houses libraries? The Internet will often turn up opinions on titles, my own glass bibliography, 1,400 titles has some collector’s opinions included - not enough and it needs a major update. A possible future project.

Self-published titles are often badly produced and lacking peer review and some of those authors are known plagiarists or to state rumour as certain fact.

In other words it is a minefield but one that can be walked through with care and of course threads on this message board.

[paradisetrader]

I'm so pleased this topic has flourished and broadened to a more gnereal discussion which I'm am finding very helpful. Thank you all.

Bernard
You have given me a few chuckles !
"more shelf space devoted to crested china"> "those dusty old tomes on C17 drinking glasses">  LOL Its so refreshing to see you write like this !!!! And so TRUE ! LOL again

High St. Bookseller> Understood and agreed but I dont think there ever was one in the Walworth Road - this area not being noted for it's literary pretentions !! BUT what we do have is a second hand bookshop - a rare thing indeed ! - and 2 surprisng finds I had there today !
1) Josh Simpson (Chaikin) orignially $35
Destined for my good friend Terry who has helped me so much in my glass quest and partic on obtaining my Murano books, which I love despite some shortcommings.  
2) NOT glass but photography: Leny Reifenstal's The Last of the Nuba - a classic for photographers - absolutely stunning.

Pewter > You are welcome
Sticky topics > I had started work on a very short intro for newbies posting pics and have set up a "Glassmessages" pic account at a free hosting site but ...as is wont to happen, I got distracted and must get back to it. Then, I guess, email Angela to get it "stuck"

Ivo
Your input always appreciated

Venini Books - duplicate photos

> Interesting & cautionary

And the unsigned ones you're after do not appear in any book

Thank you for this serious REALITY CHECK I guess you are saying that only Ebay sellers have the magical ability to attribute unsigned Venini with absolute certainly !  A sobering thought but hang on - this book purports to be a catalogue of everything produced by Vetrerai Venini - although its hard to belive that amounts to only 224 "entries" during 57 years.

I note that the cheaper copies have already disappeared from Amazon

check for remaindered

A very useful suggestion which I am going to follow up on all my book searching from now on and which the cheaper copies of this were (one was noted as having a remainder mark).

Wow Frank
Thanks for sharing this with us. What an eye opener !
As an accountant in a former life I find those costs shocking. For serious Ysart collectors paying £100s (even in the 90s I suspect) and more for a vase I can't see the price as being offputting but rather the problem as one of distribution and shelf life (at full price).
I note that Ysart Glass was published (1990) before the days of Amazon and other online channels of distribution existed.
Yes, that recession I remember all too well and suffered badly from, but also, if I remember correctly, it was the beginnings of agressive discounting and perhaps some overeagerness at that time ? Certainly the "shareholder value" concept was gripping financial markets then, when stock (inventory) of any kind became a dirty word.

While we would all prefer the real thing, given your experiences, should you not consider the e-book route for your 3rd title ? I am in the early stages of planning some ventures down that road myself, where costs are a fraction, and distribution a cynch.

Back to book buying

For selecting - look at the intro's, biblio's and acknowledgements

This is common sense really but damn good advice - I'll bet even hardened collectors look at the pics first !

This only feasble where one is able to inspect before buying which has not been the case with most of my purchases so far - those having been sent from the States ! (cheaper than buying the same title here including postage !)

Where you can find what you want here its a good arguement for buying at a bookshop or alternatively actually taking Amazon up on its offer of a 30-day Returns Guarantee for anything that doesnt come up to scratch.

While it has been hard for me to commit amounts larger than I would normally pay for a vase on a book which Im not sure I'll find useful, I dont regret any of the books I have bought.  They have been fascinating reading & viewing but I have actually identified more of my collection thru this board and other online sources !

Yes, well researched titles will always be a worthwhile investment but its difficult for new collectors to know what's out there let alone whats good. Online reviews are fine once you find something along the right lines (there wasn't one for this title)  but searching for books by subject (without an author name) is a nightmare on Amazon. It has just taken me 15-20 minutes to re-find this title and I had all the details (except ISBN) !!!You should publish your bibliography ! I'd be prepared to pay ! (a modest sum )  

Peter

[RAY]

peter,
the book's i got are mostly by leslie pina, and she covers most murano works and not just the rare glass, i got these a bit ago off this seller below, Scandinavian Glass 1930-2000: Smoke & Ice is an excellent book also the circa Fifties Glass from Europe & America 1st edition and the 2nd edition are excellent books and worth getting both and all with price guide's they cost me £96 to get them here and he will send as a gift no no paying the dreaded



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=4500148111&rd=1

[Frank]

My bibliography has been on line for 3 years or so. Direct link http://www.ysartglass.com/Booklist/Topics.htm

[Anonymous]

http://www.americancraftmuseum.org/
click on exhibitions, then archived exhibitions, then Venetian glass. The catalogue is excellent.
Rushing off to SOFA http://www.sofaexpo.com/chicago/2004/gal/zest.htm
Adam A

[Sklounion]

Peter wait a couple of weeks, and i'll let you know when my copy arrives. I have the same question regarding the Murano book featuring the Steinberg Foundations collection... any good, or coffee table clutter????
If it is worth having, have found a remainder source, selling at £20.

[Bernard C]

Marcus,

At GBP 20.00, that Steinburg Foundation book is a bargain.   It has some studio one-offs in it, but mostly standard production glass, including many of the famous designs by Bianconi for Venini and other glassworks.   At least all the photographs are new.   You don't have the problem of Miller's / Octopus constantly recycling them.

Bernard C.  

[Sklounion]

If hunting for exhibition catalogues as reference material, never assume that they are sold out, or that the cheapest offering on eBay, or a book-site, will render the best deal. Recently searched for glass catalogues, dealers, upwards of 45€, gallery still had some, 9 years later, 21€.
Research, it is amazing what it throws up :lol:

[Glassmaster]

I've posted some book suggestions at http://www.boglewood.com/murano/library.html including my own recent book "Murano Magic: Complete Guide to Venetian Art Glass, its History and Artists" (Schiffer, 2004).
Carl Gable

[Sklounion]

Is this just a hare-brained idea, but would it be useful to have a glass book review forum?
I'm looking at this from the perspective of seeing others writing on such things as Parkington 1 & 2, (Yes, I know now, auction catalogues) but I'm sure others might want a view of whether it would be useful to have a copy. I have bought the European Glass in Use catalogue, and if people would find feed-back on it useful, will post a review soon.