Author Topic: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?  (Read 1044 times)

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Offline Gary

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Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« on: April 30, 2012, 07:45:53 PM »
Whilst viewing the Perth museum Monart collection, I took these pictures of this inkwell. What I would like to know is this a Salvador or  Paul Ysart inkwell, the base is green.
Gary


Offline tropdevin

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 09:19:10 PM »
***

I don't think it is by Paul - but what does Kevin think - that's the important question?

Alan
Alan
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Offline KevinH

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 02:17:53 AM »
Quote
... what does Kevin think - that's the important question?
Actually the really important question is whether anyone knows of actual evidence of whether any bottles like the one shown were made prewar!

Current accepted ideas are that bottles of this shape and with the striped neck and well patterning are by Salvador Ysart. This is based on a) confirmation by Paul Ysart that a bottle of the same shape and with striped neck and well was "one of dad's" and  b) at least three examples seen in later years of similar bottles with a "Y" cane in both the stopper and the base.

Another similar bottle is illustrated (in b&w) in British Glass Between the Wars and the text with that is a source of information that suggested it was made in the 1930s as a personal gift for somebody. I bought that bottle at the Christie's sale of Ian Turner's Monart collection and after speaking with Ian, I was happy that the text was only hearsay and that probably 95% of similar bottles were actually made post-war at the Ysart Brothers company (trading name Vasart) and generally referred to by collectors as Vasart.
KevinH


Offline Gary

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 01:17:00 PM »
These two pictures were taken at an earlier visit to Perth museum and were describe by the museum as Monart post war advertisement material. The inkwell shape is very like the one in my earlier post, the door handle has a PY cane in it.
Gary


Offline KevinH

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 11:23:18 PM »
The bottle in the b&w photo is by Paul Ysart, which would tie in with the museum description of post-war Monart.  The shape is similar to the Salvador / Vasart bottles but the important point is that it is the shape plus the striping in the neck & well (and the stopper shank) that mark bottles of this type as Salvador / Vasart.

Other than that, without getting into cane analysis, it is usually the size of the bottle and stopper that is the next best indicator of Paul Ysart bottles which tended to be larger than those of Salvador / Vasart. But it's not quite that simple. Sizes vary within both Paul's and the Salvador / Vasart bottles.

Another point is that (probably) most Paul Ysart bottles have a clear neck & well (and stopper shank). But there are several known that are decorated in those sections. However, I have never yet seen or heard of a Paul Ysart bottle with the striping as in the Salvador / Vasart examples.

And although the majority of Salvador / Vasart bottles do have striping in the neck & well, there are some that have clear glass in those sections. Some folk have thought these must be by Paul Ysart, but the canes (and other features) show them to be of the Salvador / Vasart type.

----

The PY doorknob is a good example of something that is rarer than his inkwells!
KevinH


Offline Gary

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 08:38:11 PM »
Thanks Kevin for your concise and informative reply.
Gary


Offline Gary

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2015, 08:26:28 PM »
Actually the really important question is whether anyone knows of actual evidence of whether any bottles like the one shown were made prewar!
I have just purchased this Salvador Ysart ink bottle at my local auction house in Perth.
The provenance of this particular ink bottle would certainly point towards it being a pre war piece. This is the quote from the auction house catalogue "Alexander G. Hendrie, Supervisor/Works overseer at Mocrieff Glass for 47 years, retired 1961. The present lot was formed part of a display housed in the Shore Works, Shore Road, Perth and was gifted on retirement".
The vendor was the grandson of A Hendrie.
The collection consisted of pre and post war Monart vases, bowls and an ashtray, also there was two Paul Ysart paperweights, one with a label P/W 17 and my ink bottle.
My one is on a purple base, with 2 rows of canes and a scrambled middle.
Gary


Offline KevinH

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2015, 11:55:59 PM »
Thanks for that, Gary.

My thinking, just to get things straight in my mind ...

Within that info, perhaps there is evidence supporting a pre-war date for the bottle. The book Ysart Glass tells us that the "Shore Works" were owned by Moncrieff's but "became disused during the 1930s depression" [i.e. Great Depression 1930-1]. The buildings were occupied post-war by the Ysarts when they formed Ysart Brothers Glass (Vasart) in 1946.

So, can we suggest a date for the "display housed in the Shore Works"? It is feasible that the display could have been before 1930, but presumably a few years or so after the start of the Monart glassware? Yes, that could be feasible. Could the display have been during the depression years? Maybe.

Or how about after the depression years? Did the buildings remain unused from 1930/1 through to 1939 (and then on to 1946)? And if so, would they have been a fit place to "house a display"? Maybe.

And one other question ... where would the bottle have been kept between "sometime pre-war" and 1961 when it was gifted to Mr Hendrie on his retirement?

...

Any other points or thoughts folks?
KevinH


Offline Gary

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 03:00:02 PM »
Moncreiff Glass had from the 1920's two distinct buildings in the harbour area - 1/ Shore Works and the Tay Works buildings, so to that extent the YSART GLASS information is out of date. I have no idea what dates they were in use, hopefully at a later date I will go to Perth library to do some research, as they have boxes of Moncrieff Glasswork archives.
This is only circumstantial evidence re A Hendrie, in the Moncrieff Glassworks list employees ledger it shows a A Hendrie starting in 1915.
By 1921 there appears in the ledger a new department named "Hendries Dept " and in the main it seems to be school leavers (14 to 15 years old) who are enrolled into this department.
This would tie in with his position as work overseer.
But the main point is, not where it was displayed (though important) but that it was given to A Hendrie on his retirement from Moncrieff Glassworks, so it begs the question, why would Moncrieff Glass have this ink bottle,on display and given as retirement gift, if it was a Vasart piece.
Gary


Offline orangeglass

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Re: Salvador or Paul Ysart inkwell?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 03:41:00 PM »
My question would be "was he gifted the whole of this collection on retirement" - it seems quite a lot to be gifted - or was SOME of it a retirement gift and other parts collected by him over time?

As we all know, stories about grandads / grandmas things can often be a part of the truth, but not necessarily the absolute truth!

Just to add - whoever made it it is a lovely thing, and I thought one of the nicest pieces from the auction  :)
Roberta

 

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