Author Topic: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??  (Read 599 times)

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Offline jakgene

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Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« on: May 03, 2012, 10:06:25 AM »
Hi

I bought these recently from UK as they seemed the same as the Cenedese inscribed pair shown a few months ago by Ross in Melbourne (Ahremck) . I have seen this colour and design on a Cenedese bowl described as above - Zebrato Fenice- but am not sure what it means. Google translate says in English it means zebra phoenix. I see the stripes being the zebra bit, but where does a phoenix come in?

So - several questions please. Are they Cenedese? And what does the description mean ? and any idea of age ? There is no base wear but they do have felt protectors on them.

They are 28cm long and 11 cm high approx (11 inches x 4.5 inches)
 
Thanks

Jackie
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46557.0.html  Link to Ross's posts re his pair


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Offline flying free

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 12:18:01 PM »
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38755.msg214503.html#msg214503
Hi Jak, there is a longish discussion from this post on the thread downwards on Zebrati.  I thought fenice was some kind of pulled feathered technique  :-\
m


Offline jakgene

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 12:28:01 PM »
Thanks M .
That thread doesn't really seem to relate to the looks of my birds - that Zebrati seems to be an altogether different striped effect being discussed.

The pulled feather explanation for Fenice makes sense - it does look as if a feather has been pulled across the lines to make the curved shapes.

The words Zebrati fenice I picked up from the Design and Arts Ebay sales - they had a Cenedese bowl (ashtray) for sale in exactly the same colour and pattern as these birds have  and that is how they described it .
So perhaps they used it as a generalised description of something with stripes and the pulled feather effect??

Thanks
Jackie


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Offline flying free

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 01:14:45 PM »
Someone with better knowledge will come along shortly and be able to explain it I am sure ;D
Perhaps Zebrati is one of those 'names' that get bandied about but not always used in the context of the original description of how zebrati was constructed?
m


Offline johnphilip

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 01:16:17 PM »
I think - Fenice- means  - Venetian-  a style that was usually  the pulled looped feathers as mentioned . Zebrati is just stripes as in Zebra .
Two different techniques .
The Seguso familys private glass collection was known as the Fenice collection , for what its worth  all very confusing .


Offline ahremck

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 11:02:31 PM »
Given that my marked pair are Cenedese, and I believe they are, so are yours.  Both the size, and attitude, of each is so similar I would find it hard to conclude otherwise.  The only difference seems to be yours uses red instead of white to achieve the same result.

Ross
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Offline TxSilver

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 03:27:15 AM »
Jackie, I usually get in trouble when I talk technique, but I thought I would chime in. I am a bit looser than many when I think of techniques. I believe the Italian companies are, as well. Fenicio refers to applying filaments of glass to the outside of a vessel or sculpture, then pulling the filaments in loops in some manner -- how, I don't know (I wonder if this is done with a mold.). Zebrati refers to applying glass in a continuous concentric swirl to get a striped appearance. Putting the two together, I can envision the glass maker applying the filaments of glass in a continuous spiraling fashion (zebrati) to the outside, then forming the fenicio loops. When I first learned about fenicio, I thought it was strictly a fasce (on the surface), but I see many cased things that are called fenicio. So I have loosened my strict definition of what fenicio is.

I have pictures of a couple of doves like this that are signed "Fabio Tosi." This is not contradicting Cenedese, just adding some information. Apparently Fabio Tosi designed them for Cenedese.
Anita
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Offline langhaugh

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 04:21:26 AM »
I still have the same reservations about the term zebrati that I had in the previous thread. I think this is fenicio (the term comes from Phoenician, where the technique was developed, I think, no access to books right now).  Fenicio is created by a special tool, a metal comb that is drawn through the applied lines.

Very nice birds, btw.

David
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Offline jakgene

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Re: Pair of doves . zebrato fenice? Cenedese??
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 10:59:25 AM »
Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions. I am happy that they are Cenedese as per Ross's pair (I did get his opinion before I bid) And I think I understand the reasons for the description of the design as used by Design and Arts,  even if it is used somewhat loosely.

And I think they are very nice too David - I was most upset when the seller Ross bought from in Melbourne would not consider mailing them - I couldn't even bid for those.  It must be Karma that I have found these ......  :D

regards

Jackie


jakgene
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