Author Topic: Stuart Stratford marks  (Read 1238 times)

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Online Lustrousstone

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Stuart Stratford marks
« on: May 19, 2012, 07:56:14 PM »
This Stuart Stratford tumbler, with its totally ground and polished base, is fully marked including the registration number, but it also has an -S- mark. Is it a seconds mark?


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 09:22:32 PM »
Christine No, the complete opposite.   S or, more commonly, =S= (variety of fonts) was the mark of Stoniers of Liverpool, bought in 1876 by Frederick Stuart from John Stonier for his sons Arthur, George and Walter (too many sons for his Stourbridge operations).   See Gulliver p.268.   Stoniers was a department store, but by far the majority of their business was supplying the big shipping lines.

You have an example of the most romantic British glass known to me, as it was almost certainly kept as a souvenir of a voyage on one of the great ocean liners.

Lovely find, Christine.

Bernard C.  8)

I've just looked again at your photograph and it is =S=.   It is likely to be an S over a Plimsoll line.
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 04:11:08 AM »
Christine keeping a glass as a souvenir was almost encouraged by the shipping lines, as sets of Stuart / Stonier glasses in Stonier's dark blue boxes with the shipping line in gilt lettering were awarded as prizes for on board competitions.   Whatever the morality, the practice was recognised by the shipping lines as a small overhead, easily justified by the customer loyalty it generated.   Items such as towels, menus, menu holders, napkin rings and teaspoons were all subject to shrinkage in the same way.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Online Lustrousstone

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 10:02:22 AM »
You're right about the two lines. Thank you about the Stonier reminder. Sorry to rain on your romantic dreams but these probably came from the department store, which would have been less than 20 miles from here. I have two more that I've just unwrapped and looked; neither is marked Stuart. Both have the registration mark (a different stencil/stamp to the first), smaller pontil marks but still large (i.e., not fully ground bases) and one has just an S and the other an S with a hint of two lines on one side =S.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 06:57:23 PM »
I think Bernard provides this explanation on quite a regular basis  -  we've certainly (including me) had this 'S' subject on the board several times over the past year or two.

Something else that has previously come out of these discussions, concerns the three volume work - printed privately by Gulliver, giving details of all the Stuart designs.     Can Bernard advise if it is possibly in any way to buy or see this work please?    thanks :)


Offline Leni

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 08:08:01 PM »
Something else that has previously come out of these discussions, concerns the three volume work - printed privately by Gulliver, giving details of all the Stuart designs.     Can Bernard advise if it is possibly in any way to buy or see this work please?    thanks :)

I have one volume of the three privately printed works by Mervyn Gulliver.  I bought it from Mr Gulliver himself at a National Glass Fair a few years ago.  (I couldn't afford all three volumes - being privately printed they are expensive!)  Mr Gulliver regularly attends The National and Cambridge.  I am sure you could buy a copy of his books from him, if he still has some for sale, although you might need to contact him in advance and ask him to be sure to bring them with him. 
Leni


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 06:13:22 AM »
Christine Frederick Stuart was one of the greatest businessmen in the history of British glass.   He bought Stoniers for his surplus sons five years before he bought the lease of the Red House from Peter Pargeter.   Why?   Because Stoniers, properly directed, was potentially the single largest outlet for his future Stourbridge factory, both in normal times, and, most importantly, in recession, as ocean liners had to to sail fully equipped.   How do we know that he was planning to set up or take over a Stourbridge factory?   Because while he was working at Stuart & Mills he was experimenting with and saving up his own amazing designs, which he launched soon after he took over the Red House.

Thanks for confirming the variety of fonts found on the Stonier mark.

The probability of your three glasses coming directly from Stonier's department store is very small indeed.   Please note that I am a qualified in both mathematics and statistics, and use the term probability in a more rigorous sense than most.   However, if you bought all three within the environs of Liverpool, there is the possibility, which hadn't occurred to me before, that the shrinkage may have been caused by members of the liner's crew rather than by passengers.

Finally, Christine, I can assure you that the only dreams about glass I have are, firstly, about being a fly on the wall in the study at Ravenshill, listening to the great designers, and, secondly, about walking into a Stony Stratford charity shop and finding a fabulous piece of glass for a fiver.

Paul It's more than three volumes, and you will probably need a second mortgage to acquire it.   For example, one thick volume is just Peter Pargeter designs.   My understanding of the volume that Leni and I have is that it was just an early taster, and is no longer available.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Online Lustrousstone

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 06:55:48 AM »
As I understand it from a bit of research Stonier & Co Ltd also had a department store in Liverpool city centre, in Lord Street later to be M&S .

(And frankly I find your answer rather rude)


Offline Anne

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »
I've just rooted through the cupboard to find my glasses like the ones Christine posted, and mine don't have any marks at all - neither a Stuart mark nor an =S= or -S- mark.  :-\ In fact a lot of my Stuart isn't marked in any way.  The few pieces that are marked don't have the Stonier mark either. Maybe I'm too far from the docks here!  ;D


Offline johnphilip

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Re: Stuart Stratford marks
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 09:20:53 PM »
If you put stonier in the search box then go to no seven October 2007 you will see we were talking about Stonier /Stuart that far back , i had two sets from the Queen Mary and one from the Sylvania , the Queen Mary sets both boxed had certificates saying they were presented to a titled lady whos name i wont mention , i still have one from the Queen Mary and the Sylvania one .

 

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