Author Topic: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.  (Read 2006 times)

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Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 10:25:29 AM »
An interesting development, I have recently aquired the same candlesticks in Amber with the Rd number 751084 (see pics). They came with a Sowerby County Tray, Small Pot and Pin Dish and a Bagley Queens choice Powder Bowl. (The finials are similar on the 2 pots which may have led the seller to pair them).

The Rd number is registered by Jules Lang & Son 1929 as mentioned above by Anne. While Googling around for Jules Lang I came across this info,

"From Ivo Haanstra ‘Glass Fact File A-Z’: Jules Lang & Son c.1900 Glass dealer based in Islington, London, UK. Commissioned glass in France from old Sowerby mouldings c. 1905"

http://www.ysartglass.com/Frank/JulesLang.htm

So this is the third time these sticks have appeared with other known Sowerby pieces or Sowerby Style pieces. It seems they could well be from the old Sowerby Moulds sold to/commissioned by Jules Lang & Son?

Offline Anne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 07:28:05 PM »
Jayne - I suspect Ivo is referring to older moulds from the late 19th century... but as he's on the board it's worth an ask for clarification. He doesn't read the trinket set forum though, so he would need a nudge to find out more from him.

With the Jules Lang RD no, my feeling still is that this is a set that originated in Czechoslovakia.  The one in your post above is as you know a marriage (or, more properly, a menage-a-trois, as you have parts of 3 sets!), based I suspect on colour alone. One thing we don't tend to take into account when we consider these mix and match sets we find is that many of them have survived a world war, and some of the bits may have succumbed to that as well as normal day to day usage / accidents. Anything that survived in a household could be put together to make up a set, as many folks either didn't have the money to replace such items or simply didn't see the need to replace two- or three-part sets with a whole matching one, if the mixed set did the job for them. I think we need to consider the mindset of former generations when we wonder how these came about.
And that's without taking into account resellers who mix and match simply because the colour matches or it looks nice.  ;D

Also, and it's worth mentioning here simply because it's along the same sort of lines, Adam Dodds, who is a board member here, but also who worked for many years in the pressed glass industry in the north-east (Sowerby/Davidson/Jobling) has stated elsewhere that if a customer wanted a particular set making up it would be done, even if it wasn't a normal catalogue line. So, we may  see what, to us looking at the catalogues now, appear to be mix and match from one glassmaker but might well be exactly how the customer wanted it to be. The customer was king then.

That doesn't explain this particular set, I know, but it's something worth bearing in mind as we try and solve some of these puzzles.  :)

Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 01:10:39 AM »
Anne, thank-you I have nudged Ivo per your advice.

Of course I am fully aware of the mish mash/marriage situtation re trinket sets, I would go as far as to say maybe 30% of sets for sale are not a match.

A few things made me think some old Sowerby Mouldings were a possibilty, the initial Sowerby Tynesyde Turquoise pieces, the Etsy Turquoise set and Ebay Clear Set having a very Sowerby Tynesyde shaped looking Tray, and very Sowerby County shaped finials, and then finally this Amber set turning up with Sowerby County pieces with yet again the finial on the County pot the same as the finials in Etsy and Clear sets. I'm probably wrong but oh well it's worth investigating.

By the way what makes you think Czech?


Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 10:17:43 AM »
Kind permission given by janet2651 to use her photo from the link in post 6 on the GMB.

Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 01:23:14 PM »
Kind permission given by lilly.1634 to use her photos from the link in the first post on the GMB.

Offline Anne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 12:20:38 AM »
Kind permission given by janet2651 to use her photo from the link in post 6 on the GMB.

Thank you to janet2651 for letting us use her pic here. These items have the RD nos 751081 (ringholder), 751082 (tray), 751083 (powder bowls), 751084 (candlesticks) registered by Jules Lang.

The RD no 751081 which according to Conway relates to the ringholder is shown here in clear: Picture Link

Kind permission given by lilly.1634 to use her photos from the link in the first post on the GMB.


Also thank you to lilly.1634 for her pics. The blue candlestick is RD 751084, the powder pot, ringholder and tray are RD no. 752847 - the Tynesyde set, which had a choice of two trays, one is shown in the Sowerby 1933 catalogue, the other in the Conway book.

Jane, I'm not sure why I was feeling in was a Czech set, but the more I look at it, the more I'm veering away from that thought and toward it being Sowerby - but if so, why was the design registered by Jules Lang and not by Sowerby as usual? ???

The question of the role of Jules Lang has come up before too here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=46959.0


Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 12:31:53 AM »
Anne I think I read somewhere Jules Lang mainly imported Czech glass, could be this sowed a seed in your mind? The Amber sticks I picked up do feel a bit Sowerby to me but that could be in my mind too!  ;D

The rd date was 1929, and our first Sowerby catalogue images are 1933? Could Sowerby have sold off old moulds pre 1933 that hadn't been registered? I read many glassworks registered very few of their designs in those days. ???

Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 12:46:02 AM »
Kind permission given by PastMoons to use her photos from the link in the second post on the GMB.


Offline Jayne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2012, 12:47:08 AM »
One more pic with kind permission of PastMoons to use on GMB.

Offline Anne

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Re: Sowerby Tynesyde Part Trinket Set in Deep Turquoise Blue.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 12:53:21 AM »
Jayne, I've been searching more references and found something in Raymond Notley's book, "Pressed Flint Glass", where talking about two patterns called Ivan and Marcel (actually the same design on each pattern) where he says, "Jules Lang bought these moulds in 1905 from the liquidators of the Lemington, Tyneside, works of George Sowerby. They were made in France from these English moulds."

The interesting thing is that the pattern on Ivan and Marcel looks like that on the Jules Lang trinket set: Link to Google Docs version of the Book with images.

So, did Lang produce (or more properly, have produced) the trinket set as part of that range, either in England or in France?  Do we know of any Jules Lang catalogue sources anywhere?

A big thank you to Pastmoons for her pics too. :)

 



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