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Author Topic: Blue Bird Unknown Maker  (Read 1209 times)

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Offline msiscoe

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Blue Bird Unknown Maker
« on: December 06, 2012, 01:40:48 PM »
Hello, can anyone ID the maker of this opalescent bird? I know I have seen this one some where before, and it's driving me crazy!

Many thanks,

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 02:11:15 PM »
This may, or may not help  -  do you think there is any similarity with colours in my opalescent bird....   http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,39082.msg216170.html#msg216170    although appreciate the depth of blue is stronger in your example.
As you can see, in view of the Murano label Rose and Anita agreed on my bird as being Fratelli Toso.      Of course, other factories may well have produced these opalescent animals :) 

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 02:43:40 PM »
I don't think the bird in question is opalescent - it's blue milk glass.  ???
Cheers, Sue (M)

“Empirical evidence on expert opinion shows that it is extremely unreliable”
Ioannidis, (2005), Plos Medicine.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 02:49:47 PM »
Sue - doesn't milk glass have to be opaque throughout?   -  although I agree that part of this bird does look opaque.        the answer here would be to hold the bird up to the light and look for the fiery glow.     

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Offline msiscoe

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 06:30:50 PM »
Thank you all for your information.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 01:19:02 PM »
Don't know that we offered anything of any real use :)

Looking again it reminded me of the colour and varying opacity/translucence of Blue Pearline from George Davidson (and other factories which produced similar) - although this bird is no doubt second half C20 in date.
Apparently the colour in Blue Pearline was provided by cobalt (uranium in the yellow version), but the mix also contained phosphate of lime (instead of powdered calcined animal bones??), arsenic and limespar, without which the extremities wouldn't develop into that milky opaque shade when re-heated.
If you hold pearline up to the light, there is a degree of 'sunset glow' but this appears only in the immediate vicinity of the re-heated opaque areas.
Does this bird show any sunset glow?     

It's unlikely that this piece contains any arsenic, and it might well be that the pedestal and bird have been produced separately in order to create the different shades, and then fused together as a final process.     It might well be from the Gulf of Venice - they seem to have a passion for making ducks, swans etc.

coming back to Sue's comments..........the only book I have on milk glass is Belnap - which is now very dated - great if you simply want pictures of milk/slag glass patterns/designs, but unfortunately Belnap contributes nothing regarding the make up of milk glass - although it may well have been opacified by tin oxide rather than cryolite as in vitro porcelain.
Belnap comments in his book that to qualify as milk glass, one of the original criteria was that the colour had to be white, but probably other colours now accepted - however, it does seem that a uniform opaqueness was essential.
Sorry this is rambling.

None of which helps with attribution for this piece, but nice if you collect blue birds ;D


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Offline msiscoe

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 02:13:13 PM »
Hello, it has absolutely no sunset in it at all, just very nice blue glass....I can see that the bird and the pedestal were made separately and hot joined together...Thank you for you help...

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 07:00:05 PM »
oh well, another good idea down the drain - but it does mean that the word opalescent needs to be removed from the subject heading. :)

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Offline msiscoe

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Re: Opalescent Bird Unknown Maker
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 07:47:50 PM »
I'll upload some better pictures shortly....

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