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Author Topic: vasart? small adventurine vase  (Read 2027 times)

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Offline Frank

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 01:09:09 AM »
Nigel, what do you base the attribution to Vasart on? It is odd that no others have shown up in this shape in more normal Vasart colouring and Strathearn did produce some Cloisonne.

As to thickness of Strathearn - it was not made thick initially, no different at all to any Vasart including colours which were obviously brought along from the Shore Works. But with the desire to add the seal the thinner Vasart approach simply could not take the seal without cracking in anneallling. So we got the best possible differentiator through this choice even though not all pieces were 'sealed'.

One can only make the assumption that the finish of small pieces was minimal effort to keep cost as low as possible.

I recently discovered that the vitrolite tiles often referred to as a cheap colouring... is misleading. Vitrolite colours were used by a lot of people in the 50s Pilkingtonś in Doncaster sold mostly broken pieces by the tea chest. They were used extensively in Pirelli lampwork figures and may well have been introduced at Vasart via Dunlop, but it could have been the other way around. Colours available included black, white,  light blue, grey, jade green, pastel green, cream and red. Although red was scarce. So could be some interesting research in matching Pirelli figures to Vasart glass. n.b. Pirelli also sourced a wider pallete from P&T in rod form. Vitrolite  must have been a variation on soda glass for it to have mixed so well with it.
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 09:31:08 AM »
This is the quote from Franks site for base type 5 " This base is seen on some late Vasart, common on Strathearn, and on all Perthshire Paperweights glassware, but NEVER on Monart. Many Vasart pieces exhibit a similar finish but with a grinding scar left from a completely ground-off pontil". .
Gary


Offline adam20

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 08:47:55 PM »
I have owned many of these small vases with similar bases and they were Strathearn - I'll see if I can dig the photos out.


Offline Frank

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 09:09:49 PM »
This is the quote from Franks site for base type 5 " This base is seen on some late Vasart, common on Strathearn, and on all Perthshire Paperweights glassware, but NEVER on Monart. Many Vasart pieces exhibit a similar finish but with a grinding scar left from a completely ground-off pontil". .
Gary

Data was collected from examination of A LOT of pieces in many collections over a year or two and discussed at length with collectors. But this was in the 1980s since which time there have been many new designs and decorations, especially of Strathearn. However the techniques used in the making all evolved by the Ysart family and passed on to many workers at Vasart and Strathearn - it unlikely that any significant changes would occur as until later Strathearn all of the glassmakers were Ysart trained. The seal was a significant change from within the team... it would be interesting to find out how that came about, Dave Moir might now and is worth someone following up and at the same time getting his feedback on the base finishing and if and when changes had been deliberately introduced.
Frank A.
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Offline KevinH

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 10:20:21 PM »
Gary, many thanks for the text you referred to.

The base finish 5 of the ysartglass page relates to items where "The central area is smooth to touch but has an irregular surface." And the description begins "Figure Five has no pontil, the glass having been held by a ‘gadget’ instead of the Punty Iron."

Since it was a "gadget held" finish, this does not tie in with early Strathearn items having a ground pontil area, and that is the point I was making about the paperweights, and hence why I raised it in connection with the vase, which does have (to my eyes) a rough ground finish.

The text about some Vasart items having a similar finish, but with grinding as well, seems rather odd in a section for "gadget finished" items. But regardless of that it does not suggest that any Strathearn items also had grinding to the base.

As Frank has mentioned, Dave Moir may be able to shed more light on the finishing of items around the time of change from Vasart to Strathearn. However, my understanding that Strathearn paperweights did not have ground pontil areas came from information provided by Dave Moir, although I may have misunderstood things. I also admit that my thoughts on base finishes for weights and other wares being of the same general principle is only an assumption on my part.

Is there anybody out there with any proven Strathearn vase having a ground out pontil area?
KevinH


Offline Frank

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2012, 12:26:05 AM »
Strathearn is a big hole in research... silly that I did not make the effort to go there and get lots of first hand info while they were still operating... but there are quite a few of their ex-workers still living in Scotland... worth chasing them down Gary.
Frank A.
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Offline Gary

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2012, 10:17:01 PM »
The photo here is of the base of a Strathearn bowl with the type of finish (type 5 on Frank's site) ie" No pontil. The central area is smooth to touch but has an irregular surface".
I can accurately put a date on this particular bowl, as it was given to my parents as an anniversary present in 1965.
Gary


Offline KevinH

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2012, 11:03:53 PM »
Yes, that fits with part of the description for the type 5 base.

But unlike the vase for this thread, it is not ground out. It has had some fire polishing or has been formed in a way that leaves "smooth undulations".
KevinH


Offline nigel benson

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 11:46:45 AM »
.Hello,

I did put a reply on earlier, effectively saying the Frank had a fair point about Cliosonne and Strathearn, however it somehow disappeared :o

I believe that, having done some extra research, I can now answer at least part of the the question about Vasart and Cliosonne.
........................................
In the Pottery Gazette and Glass Trade Review, Reference Book and Directory 1961 there is an advert for Pirelli Glass, below which there is another half page advert for Vasart. There are five pieces of Vasart illustrated, two of which are 'normal' small item production - a bowl and a basket.

The other three are Vasart Cliosonne. The first being a large shape V008 vase (NB. Nearest, but not identcal); the second a small shape V029 vase (as shown here:http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/id59.html ); and the last is a footed cylindrical lamp, shape L006.

I'm wondering therefore whether the blue version of shape V037 that I have could well be Vasart? (I notice that it's still not showing on the website so I'll have another go).

Nigel


Offline flying free

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Re: vasart? small adventurine vase
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 03:52:15 PM »
Nigel I am confused  :-\

 'I'm wondering therefore whether the blue version of shape V037 that I have could well be Vasart? (I notice that it's still not showing on the website so I'll have another go).'

On your link to your site I am seeing a blue cloisonne vase on your site link identified  as 'Unrecorded Vasart - shape V037 - in rare cloisonne technique'

I don't see a small V029 identified as such on your site link which you refer to in the above post.
m

 

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