Author Topic: Date of ink bottle  (Read 1087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Date of ink bottle
« on: July 23, 2012, 10:41:03 PM »
Can anyone estimate a time period for this ysart ink bottle please?    Regards Roger.


Offline tropdevin

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2080
  • Gender: Male
    • Paperweights
    • England
    • My Paperweights Website
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 05:57:45 AM »
Hi Roger

My guess is 1960s - but are you certain it is Ysart? The canes look Ysart, but I had a rather similar bottle with slightly 'dark' glass that was identified by a couple of the Scottish makers as a frigger 'made elsewhere' using Ysart/Vasart canes.

Alan
Alan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."  Abraham Lincoln.

The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.
 http://www.pwts.co.uk


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4546
    • England
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 03:47:55 PM »
Roger, could you please give various dimensions for this item. Ideally I would like to know measurements along the lines of those I gave in a post in a thread about an unusual bottle.

I would also like to see a side on photo of the full stopper and its shank.

And does the stopper fit well in the neck, or is it rather loose?

Although the majority of Salvador Ysart inkwells had striping to the stopper, the neck and the well section, there are examples which have clear glass in those parts, but for which the overall dimensions, shape and finishing line up with the more typical "striped neck" versions. In such cases, they are normally referred to as "Vasart" (meaning Ysart Brothers period).

But as Alan has said, there are others which are either called friggers or classed as Unknown Maker. Many of the unknown maker bottles include Strathearn canes as well as early Ysart ones, but the examples with only early Ysart canes are not so easy to identify or give a date to.

I have checked three or four examples of bottles like yours, including one of my own, under uv and they have reacted the same as for Ysart Brothers or earlier. All of the usual "Unknown Maker" bottles I have looked at under uv did not react as Ysart Brothers or earlier - and they did not react as Vasart Ltd or Strathearn, either, which lines up with Alan's point about some items being made elsewhere.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 10:22:51 PM »
Hi got some info for you
   Long wave---- deep green
   Short wave------ purple to me but blue to my wife who has a good perception of colours.
    overall height   4.5 "                                                 Both parts same colours.
    bottle height   3.3 "
    Max diameter    4.0"
    Stopper diam   1.3"
    neck diam  1.15"
     neck thickness 7.0 mm
     stopper height in situ  1.15"
      stopper height out of situ    2.05"
      neck rim diam   1.7"
      basal wear ring  1/8"
      basal wear ring diam   2.9"
      flat base section  3.3"
           The stopper is not a tight fit, a bit wobbly but secure.
        The glass of both parts is quite clear.
                Regards Roger.



Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4546
    • England
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 11:56:59 PM »
Thanks Roger.

I will study the dimensions later, but for now, I am fairly sure that the shape of yours is distinctly different from the usual Salvador examples (even with variations on the theme). And that info could be very useful in comparison to others.

The stopper shank is clearly barrel shaped rather than slightly tapered with straight sides and a rounded end. This strongly suggests it is not an Ysart item.

And the uv results of Green and (deep) Blue definitely indicate non-Ysart, as the pre-Vasart Ltd items by Salvador / Ysart Brothers show as Green and Grey (the Grey is certainly not a shade of Blue or even Purple).

Unfortunately I have not examined a "made elsewhere frigger" bottle so cannot comment on the uv reaction, but I can say that all of the "Unknown Maker" bottles I have checked show as "Not Green" under longwave uv. For further info, see my article on Inkwells and the uv result images of their stoppers longwave here, and shortwave here.

So I would suggest your example could be Vasart Ltd or Strathearn, but might also be one of those "made elsewhere" pieces that Alan mentioned.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 10:41:42 PM »
Thank you for the research and I hope I have supplied you with some more info to meditate upon. 
          I have just checked the uv colours again against a vasart ltd pindish and they match in colour.    Green and blue so for the time being I will put this under that, vasart limited.  Does that seem reasonable?
         Regards Roger.


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4546
    • England
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 04:37:33 PM »
I would not assume Vasart Ltd on the basis of a uv match alone. Strathearn weights have the same uv reaction as Vasart Ltd.
KevinH


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 06:16:34 PM »
      I got the idea from somewhere that strathearn did not make any ink bottles or should I be thinking of pin dishes?
                Regards Roger.


Offline Roger H

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 413
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 10:01:38 PM »
Was thinking maybe made by Vincent Ysart around 1960 but that would be difficult to ascertain, although the button pontil is interesting as a feature.
          Regards Roger.


Offline KevinH

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 4546
    • England
Re: Date of ink bottle
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2012, 10:31:21 PM »
I had also heard that Strathearn did not make inkwells, but I have no current memory of who said it or when.

If it was true, then Vasart Ltd. would be the likely company for all inkwells of this type where the uv reaction is green (longwave) & blue (shortwave). It would be very hard to prove whether Vasart Ltd. inkwells were by Vincent Ysart or Jack Allan or somebody else.
KevinH

 



This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand