Author Topic: Caithness dragonfly C11G  (Read 1686 times)

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Offline chriscooper

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Caithness dragonfly C11G
« on: August 26, 2012, 08:55:33 PM »
Hi all, I have another piece from the job lot, it is I believe, from doing some research a Caithness Style 1 Dragonfly paperweight I believe designed in 1974 by Colin Terris and a limited Edition of 1500.
What's  got me puzzled is I have always been led to believe Limited Edition weights which failed on quality were never sold has seconds? but were  discarded.

https://picasaweb.google.com/107067405711297858658/CaithnessGlassDragonflyPaperweight

Any comments appreciated Chris


Offline SophieB

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2012, 09:38:17 PM »
Hi Chris,

The CIIG marking is indeed the mark of a Caithness second. The policy on seconds varies with each glass studio/factory. Caithness always sold their seconds in the shop attached to the factory.

To be fair, looking at this weight, I cannot see what the flaw is (although there should be one...). The weights of this limited edition are popular; and even though your example is a second, it has a market.

SophieB


Offline chriscooper

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2012, 10:33:23 PM »
Hi Sophie, I knew they sold the 'seconds' in the factory shop but the 'main' question is did they sell the Limited Edition' weights as seconds?
I was always led to believe that a Caithness Limited Edition was just that  and if it didn't come up to 'scratch' for whatever reason  it would be 'destroyed' so not to compromise the exclusivity of the run.
Maybe an urban myth but I have been given this information on numerous occasions over the years.
The last time was this evening from a collector who informed me that in 40 years he has never seen  Limited Edition weights of this type marked up and sold as seconds  :o
Chris


Offline daveweight

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 11:12:42 AM »
Hi Chris
I have seen a couple of Caithness limited edition weights sold off as seconds but this both cases there was a flaw in the making so the design was offset or not quite right but rather than destroy a weight Caithness preferred to get a few pounds for it.  Trial weights or experimental pieces which are perfect have also been marked as seconds and sold off in the shop to bring in money rather than scrap them.
Dave


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 01:21:03 PM »
I have 2 "Limited Edition" (Edition of 250) chargers which are seconds - not marked at all, and an "Edinburgh Rock" "Limited Edition" weight, also a second, unmarked and also unfacetted.
I don't know where the idea that seonds of LEs weren't sold came from. I've never heard of it, and I've been aware that seconds were sold for a very long time.
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline chriscooper

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 10:26:22 PM »
Well it wasn't my idea  ;D I know zilch about Caithness but remember selling a rather nice Mayfly with blue flowers weight a few years ago which was a Limited edition of 100 by William Manson and being informed then by the collector that there would only ever be another 99 of these made and she had been assured on several occasions no 'seconds' would be sold which made the run unique and indeed any that didn't come up to scratch would be 'smashed' So probably where the 'myth' began for me.
So last night I inadvertently  listed this weight on an auction site "Caithness Dragonfly paperweight by Willie Manson clearly stating it was marked C11G on the base and included a photo with no mention of the above theory. Very soon after the listing started someone ask me if  had a BIN price to which I politely replied no!
Shortly followed by a polite email informing it was indeed a second but not made by Willie Manson and was a real oddity has he had been informed when he had visited the factory many years ago quite categorically "that any Limited Edition weight that failed quality control was destroyed rather than marked a 'second' this weight seems to contradict what I was told" He also went on to say. He had been collecting Caithness for over 40 years and have never seen a Limited edition weight marked as a second and added however that does not mean a mistake was never made at the factory.
I ended the listing because it had a low start price and didn't it to get a bid before I could find out who designed and change the description.
Chris
   


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 08:23:11 AM »
Rumours do have a habit of spreading, Chris, and some dealers do "elaborate".
I bought my unmarked, second "Edinburgh Rock" weight from the factory shop in Crieff, while my unmarked, second chargers were found in charity shops. I just recognised the design.
I remembered last night Wuff's made comments about this - need to track the thread down.

Got it. ;D
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,47313.msg266182.html#msg266182
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline tootingpf

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 03:28:18 PM »
Well, whatever the official line, some strange things seem to happen with Caithness seconds.

I bought the heavily 'pimped' Caithness Iguana (see picture) in 2000 from, of all places, Rackhams (then Birmingham's largest department store and major Caithness outlet).  It's plainly a variant of the (uncut) Iguana (inset) that was released in 1995 with an OIP of £295.  It was scratch signed, 'Caithness Scotland'.  It was not marked, or sold, as a second but the ticket price was £20. On taking it (at speed) to the counter I was told that it was in their 40% off sale - and so it was reduced to £12. 

I'm still curious as to how it got there but very pleased that it did....



Offline Wuff

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 08:41:05 PM »
According to my information, there were no seconds of limited editions as such. What was done, however, with LE weights not quite coming up to standard, but still nice weights (borderline cases only), were modifications - so they would not have to be destroyed, but could be sold in the factory shop.
Such modifications could be facetting (possibly for less experienced workers to practice): tootingpf's Iguana would certainly be an extreme example - if compared to the original, limited edition weight (attached).
Another method would be partial sandblasting - and this seems to be the case with Cris' Dragonfly: if you look closely, some zig-zag surface structure has been added to the lower part of the dome.
I guess this is a compromise between not wasting nice (though not perfect) paperweights and not inflating the edition size of limited weights: different people will have different opinions on how different the modified weights had to be, in order not to get confused with the limited edition weight, I suppose.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
Interested in any aspect of Scottish glass? Have a look at Scotland's Glass.


Offline NMott

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Re: Caithness dragonfly C11G
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 10:55:40 PM »
I don't know if it's a limited edition, but I have a Caithness Noughts and Crosses paperweight that's a second. Marked CG2

 

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