Topic: Enigma Jug

[Sklounion]

Thanks to a chance remark by Bryn, and a comment from Ivo, an enigma has emerged.

I'd like to ask you to look at these images:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10018/LSmrckovajug.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10018/normal_LSmrckovaDPsets.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10018/normal_LoetzbandII.jpg

The first is an image of a water jug I have recently bought. The second two are images from;
a) a Druzstevni Prace catalogue from the early 1930's,
b) an image from Loetz Band II, Katalog der Musterschnitte, kindly forwarded to me by Eddy Scheepers of www.loetz.com.

Does the jug look the same/similar?

Now, the Loetz jug is often attributed to Koloman Moser, by collectors of Loetz

The Druzstevni Prace jug is never so attributed.

Having spoken to two different Czech specialists, one a curator of Glass at MSB, Jablonec nad Nisou, the other a former head curator of 20th century glass at UPM Prague, there is no question that the jug in the Druzstevni Prace catalogue was designed by Ludvika Smrckova, for Antonin Ruckl, and made, certainly from design date, at Nova hut' Nizbor, Czechoslovakia.

This ID is also made clear in Milos B Volf's Sklo: Podstata, Krasa, Uziti, published in 1947.

So, is it the same jug, the same design by both companies?

Did Loetz copy the design? and if so, from what date?

I am intrigued...... did I buy a Ruckl original, (as a Smrckova design), or a Loetz look-alike?

Your thoughts, please.

TIA,

Marcus

[paradisetrader]

There would seem to be some difference in shape betweeen them.
The Smrkova looks more uniformally barrel shaped.
The Loetz looks less uniform - the belly lower, more prominent ? and seems to rise almost vertically from there to the spout which is less well defined and less prominent from the body on the Smrkova.
The outside of the handle on the Moser sems to form a definate bulge instead of being in line with the curve of the Smrkova.

I am tentative in these observations because the differences are subtle and I am aware that even a slightly different angle of view and differences in lighting can have an effect.

What info does Eddie have on the date of the Moser catalogue ? and the measurements of the Moser jug ?

Given that the Wiener Werkstätte was operating from 1905-1932 and that designs were often contracted out to outside makers for manuifacture, the Koloman Moser association is theoretically possible. However it would be interesting to see some evidence or at least expert opinion on this.

[Frank]

Loetz jug looks quite different to me, so yours is not Loetz.

[Sklounion]

Hi,
Using the scale on Eddy's image the jug is @20cms high, and 7-8cms at the base.
The Smrckova is 20cms high and 8 at the base. I'm not convinced that we are not looking at the same design being produced by two major Czechoslovakian companies at the same time.
Regards,
Marcus

[Ivo]

Thanks for finally solving this mystery and making the glass world more transparent, Marcus! There seems to be little doubt that yours, like mine,  is a Smrckova from Ruckl and was not produced by Loetz; and it is also easy to understand how the two came to be confused.  The fact that Loetz stopped producing in the 40s, while Ruckl is still in business today may have added to the confusion - any idea for how long Ruckl continued production?

http://i2.tinypic.com/sx19g3.jpg Mod: Dead link

What I'd like to see is a picture of the certified Koloman Moser one! I'm sure it is a bit more refined and hand made than the roughshod Ruckl...

http://i2.tinypic.com/sx2oig.jpg Mod: Dead link
juxtaposed them for discussion sake....

[Anne]

Looking at all three pics side by side (thanks Ivo that's such a help) the Loetz one and Ivo's look very close to me, but the centre one (Marcus' one) looks sufficiently  different to them both for me to query it being the same maker.

Marcus is a picture of yours possible from the same angle as Ivo's please?

[Sklounion]

Hi,

I will do some new images this morning and post them later.

Eddy Scheepers tells me that the Loetz jug also came in a 27cm high version. I have no knowledge as to whether the Druzstevni Prace jug came in differing sizes but will try to contact Ruckl by e-mail to-day and ask about sizes, and duration of production.

These were mould blown, and inevitably as hand produced items, there will be some variation between pieces during finishing etc....
There are now seven new images of the jug sitting in my Palsby images folder at Glass Gallery. feel free to use them for comparison.

Regards,

Marcus

[Anne]

Marcus, thanks for the extra pics. They really confirm my view that your jug is not the same as Ivo's or the Lotz one in the catalogue. To me, your jug is more like the Smrckova one, Marcus.  

Marcus one is a more curved barrel shape, the handle stays within the barrel shape profile, and the lip is more beaked downwards. This is the same profile as the one shown in the Smrckova catalogue view.

Ivo's and the Lotz catalogue ones are straighter from the belly to the spout, the handle bulges out beyond the barrel profile, and the spout tips slightly up and out rather than beaking downwards.

[nigel benson]

Hi all,

I think that I'm going to add another dimension to this discussion.

Some years ago Jeanette Hayhurst bought a clear version of this jug, but with a distinct difference. It has vertical rows of air-trap bubbles, which is not just synonimous with S&W, but was a technique patented (from memory) by them - sorry can't remember the name. There is a short article about it with photos of a crackle version and the air-trap one in a Glass Association "Glass Cone" from some years back.

Furthermore, both Jeanette and I have ceramic versions, one of hers is from one of the Devon potteries. There are variations on all the pottery ones, but Jeanette's one is vertually identical.

(Sorry, very tired from sorting loads of things out before having to go away for a few days. If I can remember, I'll look out the reference for the S&W when I get back.)

Nigel

[Lustrousstone]

Look what I just found http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7408482771 Mod: Dead link an enigma in uranium without mould lines but with handmade seams instead :?