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Author Topic: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.  (Read 508 times)

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Offline Paul S.

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wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« on: September 02, 2012, 06:58:53 PM »
sold to me as a probable later copy of C18 wine/cordial, but I couldn't see anything massively wrong at the time, and still can't - so posting in case I'm missing something.               
Greyish colour seems o.k., and bowl decoration around rim has border of stars and shallow punties  -  seems heavy for size, and ring has good resonance which lingers, so likely to be lead composition.       Drawn stem construction - and height is 5.5" - 140mm with foot diameter large at almost 3" - 75mm (ovoid bowl is max. 1.7/8").       Foot shows very noticeable amount of striations, quite high doming and good snapped pontil which retains some sharpness  -  BUT downside might be the lack of striations on the bowl  -  it seems devoid of any of the usual horizontal lines etc.........should it have lines on the bowl as well as the foot?
Shows wear on very outer edge of foot, and stem cutting is reasonable quality.
No folded foot, so after c. 1750 - almost certainly, and I'm thinking more like 1780 - 90 perhaps.

Might it still be a Victorian copy, despite all this provenance? and grateful for anyone's thoughts  -  it was my star holiday buy, so hoping it's o.k.      Thanks for looking :)


Offline oldglassman

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 07:30:20 PM »
 Looks fine to me

Peter


Offline Paul S.

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 09:17:12 PM »
many thanks for taking a look Peter - I did originally try to read some Jacobite symbolism into the decoration, but it appears too simple to indicate anything to do with roses or oak leaves.     I'm very pleased it appears to be o.k. :)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 06:19:11 PM »
was reminded today of something I'd seen in the books, but had forgotten.        This particular pattern of rim decoration is known as the OXO border :)  -  not uncommon somewhere around 1765 - 90, apparently.


Offline neil53

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 06:40:27 PM »
Hi,

If Peter thinks it is period then it certainly is.  As far as dates are concerned, the neo-classical period from where the OXO border originated was contemporaneous with the popularity of the facet stem wine glasses of which this is an example (c1780-1800).  There were a lot of facet stem glasses made in the early 20th century as copies of the Georgian glasses, but they tended to have thicker stems and lacked striation in the bowls.  Peter would be able to give much more complete information as to how to differentiate them (we all need a guru!).  If you can find any Jacobite link then you double the value of the glass which says a lot about the romanticism of the people who buy such glasses.

Neil


Offline oldglassman

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 04:37:49 PM »
Hi
 " should it have lines on the bowl as well as the foot?"

On a glass of this type it is unlikely you will see much evidence of vertical tool marks,now known to be' stop start marks ' made by the pucellas whilst the bowl is rotated back and forth on the gaffers chair while being opened out, most of the height of the bowl already having been achieved from the blown bubble,it used to be thought that the vertical lines were created by the pucellas whilst the bowl was drawn upwards to achieve its final height,after a great deal of research by   http://www.georgianglassmakers.co.uk ,along with the Corning Museum of Glass it became very obvious that the stop start theory is the only way that these lines could have been made.

Why no marks on your bowl ? probably down to its size of bowl and possibly the thickness of the glass in these later 18th c facet stems , they could be made quickly leaving less marks , though like most rules the foot always being bigger than the bowl being another  1 they can all be broken at times so not seeing vertical tool marks'stop start marks' on an earlier larger glass is not a sign that it must be wrong ,the maker will have been a very good one and work quickly leaving very few tool marks behind , the Newcastle Light baluster types are very good examples of very finely made glasses with far less tool marks evident than we are led to believe should always be there .


cheers ,
           Peter.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: wine/stem with hexagon cut facets.
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 06:30:03 PM »
thanks for the explanation Peter  -  I'd had it in mind to come to Cambridge and thought I might just bring this piece for you to have a quick look, but now find I'm booked elsewhere for a family occasion (not that I know if you're going :))
It was habit really to look for, and expect to find, these lines on the bowl  -  those of us who collect C18 glasses are told to remember this evidence when weighing up authenticity.......and although everything else seemed o.k. I was a tad worried in not seeing any lines on the bowl  -  horizontal or vertical.    Obviously the larger and more diverse a collection of glasses you have, the more easy it should become to tell the right from the wrong.       Thanks also for the link.


 

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