Author Topic: Clichy? That's one man's strong opinion so far. (Read 7328 times)

dfernbach · « **on:** April 06, 2006, 06:47:29 PM »

So I have this 2.5 inch paperweight that looks to me like something less than a quality paperweight. The biggest thing creating this opinion is that one of the white canes has "dirt" on it. I even took an extra close-in photo of that cane to try and see if it's something more than dirt. (see the 4th picture)

I don't just annoy the Glass Message Board when I'm trying to id a weight, I also send my questions to a e-mail list I've put together. Today has been kind of wild, so I got the e-mail out hours before I got here, and I've already received 2 responses.

One response said "French or Bohemian, if the latter may be very late 19th or very early 20th century."

The other response is much more exciting for me: "Clichy, circa classic French period 1845-1855." He followed up with "Those millefiori canes with the stars in them are classic Clichy. Also the pastel colors are another clue."

I'd love to read opinions supporting this, but of course would appreciate different opinions. My goal is to be right!

http://i2.tinypic.com/t5rg2h.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/t5rgvb.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/t5rin4.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/t5rj3s.jpg

On a different subject, mazel tov to Simone on your 1000th posting!

RAY · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2006, 07:07:51 PM »

they look like clichy roses bundled with the canes but with out the green outer " leaves"

Leni · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2006, 08:05:40 PM »

Quote from: "RAY"

they look like clichy roses bundled with the canes but with out the green outer " leaves"

I agree! :shock: But, but, but ... :? I'm just not 100% sure :roll:

Whether it is or not, it's a real beauty! :shock:

And yes, Mazel Tov, Simone!

Movin' up the Top Ten posters, too! :shock: Not bad for a relative 'new girl' :wink: :lol:

dfernbach · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2006, 08:26:37 PM »

I read Ray's comment about the Clichy roses. Then I looked at the weight. Then I read Ray's comment about the Clichy roses. Then I looked at the weight.

I couldn't figure out where you saw Clichy roses. So I took a much closer in picture and looked at that. Aha! Now I see what you're talking about!

http://i2.tinypic.com/t634m0.jpg

It seems to be a little out of focus, but it might give you a better look to see if they are Clichy roses. From what I've seen of the roses in Hollister's book, I never realized that they might make the roses this small!

Simone · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2006, 08:28:11 PM »

LOL thanks Leni. :lol:

I've been looking and looking and at first glance the rose canes are similar to Clichy, but they're not Clichy and don't have centre canes. Take all the other canes in the weight and it's definitely not Clichy, but it's certainly Victorian.

The star canes are also classic St. Louis, Baccarat and Bohemian. Of them all, the Bohemians made rose canes, although they were different to the Clichy ones - so my guess is either Bohemian or one of the other French houses, but not Baccarat or St. Louis.

If I were you Don, I'd ask Larry Selman if it could be a Pantin or St. Mande.

dfernbach · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2006, 08:35:05 PM »

Thanks Simone, I'll shoot Larry an e-mail.
Funny thing though, when Larry looked at my original pictures of the weights and picked 25 that he found of interest, this wasn't one of them.

By the way, if/when you get my cd, please feel free to share any or all of the information and pictures with anyone.

One last question (for now anyway) - Pantin I've heard of - in fact I recall reading somewhere that there were only 7 verified Pantin weights. I'm guessing that was written 30 or forty years ago. But who/what is St. Mande? (you know I'm not well educated!)

Simone · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2006, 08:43:36 PM »

Hi Don,

Pantin's are very rare and very beautiful. So far I've only seen pictures of them, but would love to see one for real.

St. Mande are another antique French glass maker who also turned out some quality items.

Their canes are generally larger than Clichy millefiori, but are also very detailed and well made.

The Bohemians did make some beautiful roses and very similar to the Clichy ones. I don't know about anyone else, but I can always tell the two roses from each other.

You should take a look at the latest Selman auction. It's one I've been waiting for.

Leni · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2006, 09:00:57 PM »

:idea: I have a little weight which Sibylle Jargstorf identified as St Mande. It has very complex canes, and the centres of several are teeny tiny little roses - constructed very much like the ones in Don's weight! :shock:

It was the size which was confusing me! :roll: I looked again and saw that Don said it was only 2.5" so the roses must be quite tiny.

However, there's something about those blue and white star canes :? The fact that the white centres show through at the edges of the points is ringing a bell with me, but I just can't put my finger on it! :shock: :?

Going away to read a few books now! :roll: :lol:

Leni · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2006, 09:26:12 PM »

Don, could those white blobs possibly be crouching rabbit sillouettes, in the centre of the red cane in the blue and white star groups? :shock:

St Mande are known to have done a white crouching rabbit sillouette in blue, but the shapes in this weight look more 'blobby' - perhaps I'm just seeing things! :shock: :roll:

Simone · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2006, 09:42:49 PM »

Somehow I think the answer to it is in the white star canes with the green centres as well as the roses.