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Author Topic: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?  (Read 926 times)

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Offline bigbri

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Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« on: October 08, 2012, 10:23:41 AM »
hello board.....
i purchased these on the weekend because they felt so nice in the hand.made in 3 pieces with bowl stem and foot.they are beautiful but i know bristol blue is still being made now but these look and feel period but i would like someone to agree or not as the case maybe.lovely shape too.
happy hunting...


Offline flying free

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 10:29:10 AM »
I dont know the answer but contemporary Bristol Blue glass is normally hand signed on the base Bristol as far as I know.
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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 04:51:27 PM »
it is indeed - the word written as   Bristol  with what seems to be a dremel type tool.    The only piece I have from the 'Bristol Blue factory' is a milk jug, and without that signature there could be confusion since the handle is applied in pre 1860 style and the blue is very good with a snapped pontil - although as you'd imagine it lacks appropriate wear for a genuine period piece.         
On your rummers I'm seeing snapped pontils and what appears to be plenty of wear on the feet, quite convincing features, plus I'm thinking these have possibly one of the rarer rummer bowl shapes of what looks like a double ogee.
However, have to remember that Thomas Webb produced a bristol blue range in the late 1970's (although all the pieces of theirs I have show a ground/polished pontil depression) - although from memory not all Webb material is signed.         Much earlier in the C20 Hill Ouston were also offering period glass (including rummers), and they certainly offered blue, but I don't know if their pieces carry any sort of signature.               When flicked, do yours produce a good 'ring'?

It is often suggested that one of the clues for testing for age in glasses is to compare the diameter of the foot with the same dimension of the rim  -  the theory being that if the foot is the same, or exceeds that of the rim, then it should be period.
Unfortunately, foot wear is not guarantee of age.         Hajdamach quotes a source who relates that in Stourbridge a retired glassmaker  was actually paid to sit on the front doorstep of the factory and grind the feet of wineglasses to produce the necessary 'period' wear!!

Sorry not to be of help, but nonetheless nice glasses, and if you didn't pay much  then you have a bargain. :)


Offline bigbri

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 05:15:18 PM »
Hello.
They do have a snapped pontil and they ring like a bell.im sure they are period and the quality is right.i cannot find the shape of the bowl on any other runners period or new so it's another thing to search out but I did buy them with the flower dumps I have posted so I think we're onto a winner and your right at the price I paid they were a snip.
Happy hunting.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 06:17:07 PM »
the double ogee seems to be found only rarely on drinking glasses, and is not a shape seen in many of the books.       Found less common on wines apparently, but perhaps a tad more frequent on rummers maybe (just my opinion).        A shape which may have its origins in monteiths/bonnet glasses and some of the pan topped sweetmeat glasses from the C18.


Offline bigbri

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 09:15:12 AM »
hello Paul.
just when you think you have enough reference books you need some more.so with all that there is a good chance with the style shape good colour snapped pontil and beautiful random wear to the bases that these are "georgian bristol blue rummers with rarish double ogee form".sounds really good when you say it like that.........:) happy hunting.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 02:19:17 PM »
sorry to be a coward, but I'm not going to commit myself and join you in saying they are Georgian beyond doubt  -  just that they seem to have the right attributes for being possibly late Georgian;)    Had hoped Peter might look in and comment on these.       It would seem that 99% of rummers were in clear glass - with only a very few being coloured, and those being produced more towards the end of the Georgian period.
Regret I don't know anywhere near enough about some of these glasses.

Don't know what books you have - certainly I'd usually turn to Bickerton, but on this occasion he is rather quiet, and offers very little information on what we might call the 'bristol' colours i.e. blue, green, amethyst which were made from early in the C18.         Almost all of the double ogee shaped bowls shown in Bickerton are for sweetmeats of one kind or another, with a few champagnes and the odd bonnet glass (for confectionery) - to the best of my knowledge he shows nothing in the way of rummers with this shape.       My information came from Elville and Miller's Antique Check List (Mark West).           
I'd agree about books - there seems always to be something I don't have.





Offline bigbri

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 06:45:40 PM »
Hi.
It's never easy on the end of a pic to be certain and you have no way been a coward at least you have had something to say and I value that immensely.im hoping the old glass man has an opinion he seems to know his glasses so I will wait and see if there are anymore opinions.
I'm thinking of keeping them and drinking some nice red from them might just improve the flavour.
Happy hunting.


Offline neil53

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 11:57:29 AM »
Hi, just while we wait for Peter to comment, can you let us know what age there is to the foot rims, bowl rims and to the outside of the glasses?  It is easier to fake a period piece than to fake the ageing process.  From the pictures I can't see much age on the rims, but that could just be the photography.  Also there doesn't appear to be much if any striation or other toolmarks in the bowls.  Again that could just be the photography.

There have been "Bristol" Blue goblets and rummers made since the 18th century by a lot of glasshouses, not just the current Bristol Blue company.  I've personally made mistakes in dating such glasses before.


Offline bigbri

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Re: Bristol blue rummers....georgian victorian or later.....?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 01:16:48 PM »
hello Neil.
there are tool marks and striations all over both goblets esp around the lower 3rd of the bowl where the glass has been worked and to the base where the stem is attached.also there are the odd dimples in the bowls.there is also some rim wear with odd scratches,the foot has alot of wear to the touching surfaces which looks genuine as its totally different on both goblets as they obv touch the surfaces dfferently.the also appears to be a ridge or flattened area to the outside edge of the foot all around as you can see in the pics which i thought might be a folded foot.the more i handle the more im loving them.hopefully the man who knows will be along soon.
happy hunting.

 

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