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Author Topic: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please  (Read 1316 times)

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Offline user9318

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Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:38:29 PM »
Is this a Georgian or Victorian (or even possibly later) custard cup.

The cup has arched panels on the body.

The handle looks to have been applied to the cup body.

The cup has a ground out pontil.

The foot is slightly uneven in shape, not completely round.

8.7cm tall x 6cm top rim diameter x 5.1cm max foot diameter

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 01:52:25 PM »
looks genuine enough........handle attachment appears to be correct for pre 1860, and decoration appears to be moulded - can also see fair amount of wear on the outer edge of the foot rim, so would suggest a date of somewhere around 1840 - 1860.         Areas around the crevices of the handle/bowl also perhaps where the bowl joins the stem might show dirt discolouration, indicating some age.
Custards - usually short cup shaped domestic items with handles, as opposed to the taller jellies without handles, seem to be a C19 development from the original jelly, which has a much longer history and goes back to the beginning of the C18.         This differentiation and the separate naming is a second half C19 habit, and if you look in Silber & Fleming you will see many patterns for both  -  short custards with handles and taller jellies without handles.          However, on older examples handles are seen on jellies as well - sometimes examples with double loop or 'B' shaped handles (one either side)        Variation is endless with these things, and both in their turn had very long histories - great pieces to collect.       Might this be the first of many? ;)   

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Offline user9318

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 03:37:26 PM »
Thank you Paul, there is grubby dirt around the handle areas etc.

So this is a jelly cup, not a custard cup, my apologies, early glass, I admit, I do not have a great knowledge of. I do have some other custard cups I have collected earlier this year, so I think my collection will get larger over time!!! :)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 06:53:49 PM »
sorry, I may have confused the issue, unwittingly.       Whilst this piece is not of the late Victorian short-round-cup-shape style I mentioned, I would still be inclined to call it a custard simply because it has a handle and is shortish.        Generally jellies will appear taller than this piece    So custard it is.  :)       

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Offline user9318

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 08:03:18 PM »
Thank you Paul for the clarification.

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Offline neil53

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 12:10:40 AM »
Hmm, must be my evening for recommending handbooks.  There is an almost identical glass in the "Antique Collectors pocket guide for Sweetmeat and Jelly Glasses" by Therle Hughes on plate 17, which asserts it to be "Victorian with Stourbridge style ornamentation".  Hope this helps.

P.S it calls the glass a custard cup.

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Offline user9318

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 06:59:18 AM »
Thank you Neil for the information, I will look for the book on Amazon.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Georgian or Victorian custard cup for ID please
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 10:30:36 AM »
whenever people quote book titles, I usually discover I have another volume to buy - but pleased to say that on this occasion I already have Neil's recommended title :)  -  in fact I have two copies.         Thought I'd left the first on a train year or two back so rushed out and bought another, only to find the first one some months later in the house.         It's a great little book (quite small at about 5" x 6.5") and thin - and frustrating that the lady didn't produce something more comprehensive and with better pix - many of which don't include dimensions of the glasses.              Therle Hughes was the wife of G. Bernard Hughes, who produced some of the best books on C18 and C19 table glass etc. - his "English, Scottish & Irish Table Glass" is a not only good for pix but is also an attention holding read - so many textbooks are dry and lack bedtime readability.      They collaborated on only one I think, which was "After The Regency" - bit of jumble of info. on various collectables (including glass) from the period 1820 - 1860.
Aside from Therle Hughes, most other authors include jellies and custards in passing, and briefly - which a shame, as they make great collectables, many of which can still be bought without big money - some of my best have come from boot sales.

Must admit I'm lazy and tend to say 'custard' - when probably I should say 'custard cup', but with this shape I'm less inclined to say 'cup' since that implies a different shape  -  if you take the handle off this one it would look more like the shape of a jelly glass.        We call it a custard simply because it has a handle.
I notice that there was no response to my comment that I thought this one looked moulded  -  whereas the example quoted by Neil has wheel cut decoration. :) ??

If user9318 has trouble in finding a copy of Therle Hughes book, let me know and you can have my spare one.       However, I suspect there are copies on either Abe Books or Amazon.

Sorry this is long winded. :-[

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