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Author Topic: Old Glasses or not ?  (Read 962 times)

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Offline petet63

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Old Glasses or not ?
« on: October 21, 2012, 06:28:41 PM »
I have these four Glasses, 10cm in height, 5.6cm diameter at the lip and 6.3cm diameter foot. To me they look and feel old but as usual I am not sure. They seem to fit the usual criteria but can anyone give me more info please.
Pete. :-)


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 01:42:18 PM »
not sure what you had in mind as 'the usual criteria', but you make no mention of some important pointers which might help to confirm whether or not they have some age...........is the design cut or moulded  -  are they lead glass compostion  -  what is the extent of wear, not only on the underside of the foot, but on the arris (that sharp intersection between each panel)  -  are there pontil marks/depressions.
If lead glass, with cut decoration, and a bladed knop, then I'd suggest date wise c. 1820.            They look genuine - good to have the four.
Not sure whether to say bucket shaped rummers or small goblets..............the qualification for being a rummer is that the bowl should always look disproportionate to the stem - perhaps Peter will give us his opinion, please :)


Online Lustrousstone

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 01:59:37 PM »
Or perhaps 50 years newer, as they look very similar to this
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1626


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 03:19:52 PM »
Don't know that I'd have used the expression "very similar to this"  ???     Different bowl shape - stem - colour, and foot/bowl proportions reversed I'd suggest - though I'd agree they both come from the same century (although the style of the rummers might even go back as far as c. 1790 perhaps).            As I've commented, when posting drinking glasses that are known to have modern counterparts, it's essential really to give as much information as possible - along the lines of these pointers mentioned.    The give away will be if they are lead, and have good quality ground/polished pontils plus appropriate wear.     Quality pic of the underside of the foot is also very useful.       Nice glass though Christine ;           Let's see how Pete replies. :)


Offline oldglassman

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
HI ,
           I would say they are lead , they have been wheel cut and I suspect will probably have nicely polished pontil marks, lol I'll wait to be corrected on the mark maybe, as to date it could span quite a period from the 2nd quarter of the 19thc right through to the 20th century, to me these look to be the latter part of the 19th c, very bright metal and a very sharp blade knop too.As always with many of the simple forms that were produced for a very long time it can be difficult to nail them down precisely from a photograph,so its best guess as usual.
 
 Nice for a wee dram,
and a wee dram is what I will be having out of this glass http://data.bidmaster.co.uk/halls/bidcat/detail.asp?SaleRef=3017&LotRef=250 at the invitation of the auctioneers after a little assistance in providing some important information


Cheers
           Peter.


Offline Frank

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 04:07:56 PM »
Nice, is that the first Amen glass to come up since the research?
Frank A.
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Offline petet63

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 04:14:44 PM »
The pontil is a small polished concave in the middle with a very small mark left where it was snapped. They are lead. I have taken some more pictures as I am as you all know a mere beginner. My usual Criteria are a few miles away from pauls criteria. Mine consist of The look of the glass, the foot and the way they are constructed. I am punching above my weight with old Glass but was fairly confident they had some age. Thanks for all the pointers.
Pete. :-)


Offline petet63

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 04:40:41 PM »
The two small 'marks' in the polished pontil look to be holes  ? you make one out on the right of the left finger. 3 of the four have marks around the pontil mark. One has a small open air bubble on the foot that i thought was a small nick but it has no sharp edge to it. Hope this makes sense.
Pete. :-)


Offline oldglassman

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »
Hi ,
          Yes Frank this is the first since the attribution of Sir Robert Strange as the most likely candidate for the diamond point engraved Amen glasses,as Dr Seddon said , now that we are pretty sure we know who created these most valuable Jacobite relics this discovery should make them even more valuable,so far the record is for the 'Spottiswood' I believe sold in the 90s for I think 60k, and I think is now in the Drambuie Collection so it will be interesting to see what happens to this one ,  anyone fancy sharing ownership ?  lol .

cheers,
           Peter.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Old Glasses or not ?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 09:56:13 AM »
Pete  -  these pointers I mention are a normal way of making some attempt to assess the age of glass, something Peter would agree he's doing all the time, and nothing you couldn't do yourself.              The important thing when posting pix - of drinking glasses especially - is to refer to these points when posting, because that's how other people will then try to arrive at a conclusion  -  it's very dodgy to make assumptions based on a picture only.                   I doubt that you're a 'mere beginner', judging by some of your comments, and you now know how to assess this particular type of glass.........lead - colour - pontil - wear - style of knop - foot - seeds -  proportions etc.         Where the pontil snaps it leaves an irregular finish, and often, despite creating the ground pontil depression, some of this irregular finish can remain, and be seen as small holes at the bottom of the depression.           Keep reading the books - nice glasses - hope you got them for a bargain price. :)

 

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