Author Topic: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern  (Read 1232 times)

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Offline jakgene

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 10:34:28 AM »
This one has a ring of star canes, with what looks like a partial poinsettia in the centre, green base.  Marked C11G to base. Have never identified what it was supposed to be - if anything. Closest I  found was a Christmas 1988 commissioned weight

JAK
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Offline jakgene

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 10:36:44 AM »
And this one I have been unable to identify the original pattern - do not think it is an unlimited weight though. A pink wisp of colour with one large front facet, and then has had leaves engraved around the base .

Hope these are useful
JAK
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Offline Wuff

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 11:39:52 AM »
I have 3 Caithness seconds  - This one has been on the board before - a crown weight - link to earlier topic.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38268.msg211092.html#msg211092
Will post the other two separately.
JAK
Thank you for reminding us of this thread - but, as suggested in the original thread, this is most likely not a "modified LE" weight (at least I cannot find which one it would be), but a trial piece (colour variation) of one of the early crown weights.

This one has a ring of star canes, with what looks like a partial poinsettia in the centre, green base.  Marked C11G to base. Have never identified what it was supposed to be - if anything. Closest I  found was a Christmas 1988 commissioned weight
JAK
What size is it? Looks to me like a 1988 Miniature Poinsettia (see attached image) - an unlimited design - not finished (facetted).

And this one I have been unable to identify the original pattern - do not think it is an unlimited weight though. A pink wisp of colour with one large front facet, and then has had leaves engraved around the base.
Hope these are useful
JAK
A very nice example of a weight with (additional?) engraving (rather than frosting) - unfortunately one of the designs of which (IMHO) too many similar ones are around, making it difficult to determine which one it is (or none of them?).
I would assume, however, that this type of engraving is more time consuming than frosting (experts - please, correct me if wrong), and would therefore not be the method of choice to "modify" a LE weight for sale as second: more likely these would really be practice pieces (and still sold as seconds afterwards).

Thank you, again, JAK !
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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Offline chriscooper

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 11:53:29 AM »
I agree they have little value hence the start price of a fiver  :) that is not the reason I bought them. I do not collect glass any more I buy and sell glass to make a profit. The original thread was about the Ltd Edition Dragonfly and the subsequent theories about why it had the extra decoration. I bought the 2nd one the Unlimited edition 'Fire dance ' because it seems to go against the original theory that the extra frosting was added only to differentiate the Ltd Edition seconds. If they do not sell they go to the Sue Ryder charity shop with the rest of my unsold pieces to go round and round again. The photos though are always kept.
The collector of 40 years also came up with another theory that rings a bell from somewhere?

"These oddities only occur with the very earliest Caithness limited edition weights. The defacing of weights took two forms. One is the way in which your weight is done. The other is by scribing lines, usually 6, over the surface of the weight.  When I first visited the factory in 1980 I was told quite categorically that all limited edition weights that failed quality control were defaced and destroyed and were not sold. Inevitably, I suspect, a few escaped by being taken by employees. A replacement weight was made if needed so the suggestion that the set number would have been compromised is simply nonsense. It never ceases to amaze me how this sort of myth gets established and repeated"

Chris
Chris


Offline Wuff

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 12:13:20 PM »
I bought the 2nd one the Unlimited edition 'Fire dance ' because it seems to go against the original theory that the extra frosting was added only to differentiate the Ltd Edition seconds.
As mentioned before - defacing LE weights is one explanation - only one - the other being that trainees got a chance to practice: why else would you treat an unlimited weight this way, instead of just marking it CIIG, which would be sufficient to make it a second?

The collector of 40 years also came up with another theory that rings a bell from somewhere?

"These oddities only occur with the very earliest Caithness limited edition weights. The defacing of weights took two forms. One is the way in which your weight is done. The other is by scribing lines, usually 6, over the surface of the weight.
Does ring a bell ;) - I had noted several of this type on ebay over the years - unfortunately (as mentioned above) I didn't take notes :(.

A replacement weight was made if needed so the suggestion that the set number would have been compromised is simply nonsense.
Now - this statement doesn't make sense - to me ??? at least.
A limited edition implies that the planned edition size is not exceeded(!). If a single weight was not meeting the standard (and defaced to be sold as second), there was no need to make a replacement weight: a large percentage of LE weights were not made in the planned quantity - if they didn't sell as hoped for, it made only sense to stop production early, rather than produce hundreds of weights which never would sell. Example: Asteroid of 1978 ... 3000 planned ... only 995 made!
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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Offline Frank

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 04:03:20 PM »
And this one I have been unable to identify the original pattern - do not think it is an unlimited weight though. A pink wisp of colour with one large front facet, and then has had leaves engraved around the base .

I would say the facet was the base and the new base added by the engraver. Needs a view standing on its 'facet'
Frank A.
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2012, 04:29:40 PM »
That large front facet is a common feature in many of the modern ranges...

Offline Frank

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 03:01:57 PM »
I know but the spiral appears to originate in there so that was the base side as it was shaped in this case.
Frank A.
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Offline jakgene

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 03:23:39 PM »
That weight is packed in a box in my shed so cannot get another photo just yet. Will try a photo of it as Frank suggests when I can get it out.

JAK
jakgene
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Offline Wuff

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Re: Caithness Limited Edition seconds with added pattern
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 07:15:14 PM »
I would say the facet was the base and the new base added by the engraver. Needs a view standing on its 'facet'
The weight reminds me of "Pastel", an unlimited edition, first issued in 1986 in several colour combinations.

Now - Pastel is not facetted - together with the orientation of the swirls, the rather small base (at least as it looks on the image) also makes me think that the "front facet" used to be the base, and a small facet was added to allow putting it this way.
Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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