thank you all for your observations and help and lovely comments
Mel, I'll find a link to the 'epergne stand' in a minute -
Pamela, Sue, it definitely has the quality of a Loetz piece, and thanks for your nice words. My thoughts are that it is not as translucent as Christine's pieces, and if I'm honest Loetz didn't even come to mind when I saw it - it isn't somehow the same as'tango' glass and I can't explain why it isn't, also the rim and the way the handle is applied all say mid 19th c to me...I did think possibly 1830/40s but am now wondering if it might be a bit later (Obviously I could prove to be wrong on all my thoughts
- and Loetz would be nice! but..)
Ivo, your little jug is very beautiful and thank you for another lead to search
The opaline looks very yellow on your jug and my jug is definitely white and very clear, clean, translucent opaline glass, but your Bohemian thought lead me on to other observations (see below).
OK, so my thoughts are these now -
I did originally consider Bohemian for the jug but ignored my thoughts because a) I genuinely thought the rim pointed at France and b) I just thought the detailed way it was made, and the design of the shape of it, were more 'sophisticated' and less 'sturdy' than I consider Bohemian glass to be, which for me pointed to France.
But having been pointed that way again -
- The trefoil rim and the way it is done at the back by the handle is unusual and Richardson had a fondness for this type of rim it seems. (I can't find any other definitely identified makers that did at the moment). I think that rim and the way the handle is applied, which is also rare, indicates it is mid 19th century (I thought it may even be as early as 1840's but let's ignore that for the mo).
- Which led me on to the thought that Richardson also seemed to have a lot in common with Harrach regarding styles, obviously with some differences, but there is confusion often between the two makers.
- The first jug I linked to on the Ruby Lane site http://www.rubylane.com/item/518922-1917-397/Antique-French-Baccarat-Opaline-Enamel
is the one that is closest to mine in terms of the rim and the handle. It is attributed as Baccarat, but with the mark on the base and that amber tan coloured flat background enamel band, I wondered if it might be Harrach. I have found a Harrach marked piece with a very similar P with the horizontal foot on the P and Harrach did letter and number their pieces. But against that, the jug seems to have quite a large polished pontil mark and the gilded decoration and design doesn't look particularly Bohemian to me
- Re the jugs on the Black Country Museum site, some are marked but I thought there might be a possibility that the red one attributed as 'probably Richardson' http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST730/
might be Bohemian? - it too has similarities with my little jug.
- I then found a dated 1869 page of Harrach opaline with red trailed wavy rims on Collectors Weekly http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/60061-harrach-neuwelt--alabaster-glass-vesse
So, I've no definite id but I'm now wondering whether it is either:
a) earlier Bohemian glass i.e. 1840's or so from an unknown glass house(would a small maker do polished pontil marks and that level of detail and design or would it need to be a fairly established house?) or
b) later 1869 ish Harrach (but I feel the design is not really Harrach ish - don't ask me why as I couldn't explain that feeling in words
and I'm probably wrong or
c) a place such as Josephinenhutte but I've no idea whether they did this kind of opaline glass or Richardson but I can't find any with trailed rims
Phew...thanks if you managed to read this far.