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Author Topic: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim  (Read 1399 times)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 05:58:41 PM »
I was going to mention Gulliver, but you beat me to it.         It may be significant, but having trawled the Manley pictures, and despite seeing reams of Richardsons products with strap handles, opaline and alabaster colours etc., nowhere can I see anything with an applied ruby trailed rim.    So just possibly an indication that this might be Continental m. :)


Offline neilh

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2012, 06:22:31 PM »
For future reference:

Looking at the Molineaux Webb pattern book, they had a go at some of these white + minimalist colour styles around the 1855-1865 era. Pattern 6189 is a creamer with small basin/sugar. Both are white with British Rail 1940's green. The creamer is green on the upper half and partly on the handle. The basin is green around the rim, but much thicker than the examples here. They also did several variations of white tazza, usually with lime green or pale blue horizontal sections of varying widths.


Offline flying free

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »
Thank you both for taking your time to go through references for me  :)
Neil I like the sound of those, have you ever seen any in person?  The lime green sounds especially interesting (to me  :) )
 
Paul, thanks so much for going through more Richardson for me - as I said earlier I couldn't find any with red trailed rim either, so between us we must have covered off a fair few!  Hopefully safe to say most likely  not Richardson then.  I think, thanks to  Ivo's lead of Novy Svet,  Harrach is  nearest so far.  The white with red rim jug (c1855) in Gulliver's page 238 I am pretty certain is the same maker - now I just need to know who  ;D 
If it's Harrach then perhaps they made these pieces earlier even than the 1869/1870 in the book? or is my jug later than I supposed?

And just to correct what I said earlier about my cake stand being possibly pate-de-riz - Ivo said on the thread for that piece, that it wasn't - so these are just different forms of opaline I think with some being clearer than others.
m




Offline flying free

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2012, 11:57:26 AM »
thanks Mel - no I didn't find the earlier link where the collectors weekly bowl I had linked to is compared to a later Kralik piece. But I have been pondering the Collectors Weekly link I gave earlier.
Just to confirm here - on that link, the poster says his earlier bowl is solid opaline glass whereas the Kralik comparison piece achieves the same 'effect' by using white cased in clear glass with a trailed rim. 

So I have a question about the earlier link I gave http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/60061-harrach-neuwelt--alabaster-glass-vesse
where the posters bowl is identified from a Harrach id'd  published picture.  The rim on the posters bowl has the pulls made by pulling the rim down, whereas the pictures of the Harrach id'd published pieces show the fluted rim made by pulling up - well at least it does to my eyes.  Does this make any difference or is it just a variation in technique - I'm not questioning the identification, just pondering really.

Re the link Mel gave and the explanation on Collectors Weekly of how the posters bowl is made and comparison to Kralik, my jug is solid  glass or 'opaline' glass (Gulliver's calls this opaline type glass - at some point, I'm going to start another topic on this as a discussion) as is the posters bowl id'd as Harrach, my jug is  not cased as the Kralik version.

The trailing on the rim of my jug appears to be a match for the colour and type of the trailing on the posters bowl.  But whilst my jug has an integral foot and polished pontil, it does not have a stand ring.  It is slightly concave on the base, so the wear is all on the outside but there is no deliberate stand ring.  On photo inspection I would say my jug and the posters bowl have marked similarities.  I just need to find a Harrach jug with that particular shaped rim and handle and I will be happy  ;D
m


Offline Paul S.

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2012, 10:18:15 AM »
believe there was a link to a piece of Baccarat opaline at the beginning of your post m - although the example shown was of a very different style - but possible you may have been closer than you thought in suggesting this French factory who made some of the best C19 opaline.
Top right pic. - page 53 - of Miller's 'Glass Antiques CheckList' (Consultant Mark West) - shows a similar bright white opaline jug (unfortunately, size not given), with deep blue trailing around the rim.          Although the rim trailing colour is different, both pieces share other characteristics strikingly similar  ...very wide downward pointing lip, an OTT bulbous body elevated on a 1 - 1.5 cm. narrower base, and that distinctive pinched/lobed effect either side of the rear of the rim  -  was that peculiar to Baccarat does anyone think??     
The book describes this shape as "The inventive form of this jug is typical of many Baccarat designs"         
Similarities with your jug appear too great to ignore and make for a 'highly probable' connection  -  although no suggested date of manufacture is given in Miller's, Felice Mehlman gives c. 1840 for French opaline which is the same as Ivo's suggested timeline.
Don't know whether you have access to this book, so perhaps someone else might check for me if not :)


Offline flying free

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2012, 11:29:32 AM »
thank you so much Paul, for taking the time to look for this.  I really do appreciate it, especially since it is not a book I have.
I'm torn on this one - going back to my original post I still look at the jug and think French, it's just what it says to me,  which I know is not a good thing to go on  :).
So far out of all the links I've posted,  I am as sure as 99.99% that the large white jug in Gullivers is the same maker. I'm not sure of a connection on any of the other links.
m


Offline Frank

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2012, 03:14:16 PM »
Makes some senses of this pressed piece of Inwald opalish http://sklo-union-glass.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=298&category_id=6&keyword=boule&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 with enamelled red rim... which just seemed at odds for the 1930s period but was presumably a traditional decoration style for Bohemia.
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2012, 03:17:55 PM »
Frank the link isn't working for me  :-\
found your jug and cup by another route though.
They are pretty- but given there was a lot of tango glass around perhaps that was the 'flavour' they were going for.  I love it, but it's an odd amalgam of design isn't it?  kind of 40's/50's style gilt bands and red enamel and shape, but the bobbles just give it the wow factor.,]
m


Offline flying free

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Re: c1850 ? white opaline small jug applied red trailed rim
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2012, 03:47:10 PM »
Paul, I've not managed to find anything id'd as Baccarat online, even using French search terms.  The only one I can find that has some similarities in the slightly downturned spout and pinched rim is this one sold at Christies as possibly St Louis or Clichy (the decor on this is not opaline though).

http://www.christies.com/lotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4487268
and Clichy yellow small opaline vase here with what appears to be an integral foot
http://www.gazette-drouot.com/static/magazine_ventes_aux_encheres/cotes_et_tendances/opaline.html

 

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