Author Topic: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, snakes, drip trail rim. ID = Harrach  (Read 9670 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, applied gilded snakes, drip trail rim
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2012, 08:53:19 AM »
Mark Hill was explaining the technical  difficulty of the incalmo process last evening on the Antiques Roadshow (ref a Venini piece).

Whilst the coloured applied top and spout of my jug is not 'ultra smooth' on the join, it's interesting to me to know they used this technique in the 19th century.  Anyone know of any other pieces dating to this period or earlier, where there is a 'join' of two different coloured pieces of glass in this way?
m


Offline Frank

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Re: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, applied gilded snakes, drip trail rim
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2012, 03:37:50 PM »
In theory you can find incalmo back to the 1500s when technique was first described, might be hard to actually find some though.
Frank A.
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Re: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, applied gilded snakes, drip trail rim
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2012, 04:04:39 PM »



Thanks Frank.  I haven't come across any in my books so far but
 http://www.victorchiarizia.com/vc-info-incalmo.htm
I found this great description of the technique which helps visualise the process.

I'm still amazed the jug survived the whole process.
I appreciate my knowledge of glass making is limited but this is a very large  and very heavy piece.  The body is internally ribbed so has been mould blown, then the incalmo process in some way to attach a different coloured glass at the top, then the snakes and applique tears/drops applied, plus the handle, and then the whole thing has been enamelled and gilded and refired again.  Given the time period it was made and  the amount of process it's gone through to achieve the end result, there must have been a high potential for failure along the way.
m


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Whilst searching for something else I happened upon this uranium glass enamelled vase identified as Auguste Jean.  In the description it says it has a handle missing and looking near the top just under the rim there appears to be an applied thick trail (sort of like a snake type thing as though it might have curled around the piece and become a handle).   Anyway, the enamelling on this, something about it, and the colours of the green leaves, the way they are done, just reminded me of my jug.
There is no reference or reference to signature on the piece though. 
http://www.madforglass.es/french/french_374bb.html
Any thoughts from anyone on whether you see some similarities with my jug, in the enamelling, that I see please?
Much appreciated :)
m


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Quite by accident I ran into this jug!
Identified as Moser but can't see any references for that.

http://www.kovels.com/price-guide/glass-price-guide/moser.html?eid=701753
Better link here
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4469841

I've no idea what the attribution is based on, but wondered if anyone knew if it was a Harrach vase for sure maybe?  The colours look ok for Harrach.
Miraculously it appears to have the same applied blue top to it but on a brown body.  Completely different shape and decoration to mine but the same spirit of all over enamelling.
m

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I feel I'm getting closer  ;D
see post above
and also this

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8492711

I recognise the jug or pitcher is different to mine, and I can see that the enamelling is a different kind on the branches, but I'll be darned if that isn't from the same house as my jug, those insects are good, the flowers have a marked similarity.  It is signed on the base with what looks like it could be an enamelled 'm ' and numbers, but I've no idea if that is a Moser mark or Harrach.  It's been id'd as Moser but I don't know.
Thoughts anyone? 
m

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I've been through hundreds of images checking for enamelling and found nothing definite to link my jug to Moser  - as stated earlier in the post, Moser have already said they didn't do this kind of enamelling.  But I've been checking signed Moser pieces to try and establish the differences between my jug and their type of enamelling. 

Then just a few minutes ago, I found this!
a tumble up with both the glass and the water decanter signed Moser according to the description (can't see a picture of the sig).  The enamelling type does look like that done on my jug. 

If this is Moser, and Moser have said they didn't do the enamelling type on my jug, can anyone please explain the differences between the two types of enamelling to me? Many thanks :)

http://atlantaantiquegallery.com/i-4751874-moser-light-green-tumble-up.html
m

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Just to put you all out of your misery as I know you've been running round desperately searching for a maker on my jug  ;D  ;D , or conversely, reading my ramblings and wondering what on earth I'm going on about  ;D

Very exciting news for me as my pitcher or jug  has been formally identified as Harrach this morning, by a very kind person at Harrach who spent three hours searching pattern books for me.
I'm delighted of course!  I said it was Harrach right at the beginning but it's just perfect to get a definite id.
I'm not totally clear on the enamelling yet.  That is something I'm currently looking into with a little more help given this morning  from Harrach.

thanks for all your help and thoughts etc - all very much appreciated.  I do love an id  ;D
m


Offline Frank

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Re: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, snakes, drip trail rim. ID = Harrach
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2013, 02:24:04 PM »
I think that Moser probably translated badly and what they referred to as metallurgic (oxides) would be metallic lustring applied over the enamel in a thin coat before firing. This gives lustre/opalescence or other effect and usually causes a craquelle type effect as a side effect and this shows on your enamels. There are other ways of adding lustre to enamel if needed and so I guess this must be what they refer to as it is easily identifiable. Can you confirm with your Moser contact please.

Well done on the attribution too.
Frank A.
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Re: Gigantic 13"x 9" enamel jug, insects, snakes, drip trail rim. ID = Harrach
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2013, 07:03:43 PM »
I have done my best to try and identify with Moser exactly what the difference is between their enamels and mine (see copy of my message to Veronika and her message back to me below).

Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure it elucidates any more on the difference in the enamelling used or the technique, although others with more knowledge (I have no understanding of this at all) may find the further info I give below helpful.

Can I just say that despite knowing this is not one of their products, Veronika and the production team have been absolutely fantastic and taken lots of time to examine my pictures and respond to me on more than one occasion :) :)

I can say -
1)  Moser have said they did not make this pitcher/jug and I think they mean that they neither made the blank nor enamelled it.
2)  Harrach have confirmed they made the blank and Petr Novosad went through the pattern books for hours for me and has sent me copies of the various pages as well as, I believe, evidence of who the blank was made for.  I am not willing to share these but I can say it was not Moser.  I will post separately on the dates later.
 
here is my most recent message (part only) to Veronika at Moser and their lovely response in reply -
[i]Dear Veronika
I'm sorry to bother you again and thank you for your previous help on my pitcher or jug. 
I didn't understand  about your comment regarding the enamelling on the pitcher and wonder if you can help please?
What is it about the technique on the enamelling that can only be done on sodium glass please?  Is it the type of enamels that are used for example?
I've been asked by a longstanding member of the Glass Message Board if I can explain and I don't know how to...

...Thank you again for any help you can give about the enamelling technique etc.
Kind regards
m


From Moser today:
Thank you for your e-mail.
 
I asked in the production to explain me the question you require to clarify. I hope you will understand my explanationJ
 
The sodium glass has got the possibility of longer processing. The Italian glassworks (for example Murano glassworks) mostly use this. The advantage is that the time for decorating, sticking the ornaments and other decoration is longer and this kind of glass enable this.
 
The sodium potash glass which is used by Moser has got  shorter time of processing. It gets faster stiff and the docarating and enameling is not possible.
 
Should you not understand or you might have other questions feel free to contact me-
 
[/i]

Out of all my searches, I have am now down to only one other piece that I believe is the same hand as my pitcher/jug - it's a different shape, but instinctively I feel it was made by Harrach and  believe the enamelling house is the same one as mine. Link attached to this here  http://www.rubylane.com/item/568150-2422/Bohemian-Art-Glass-Vase-10.  The jug that has the drip trails on the neck that  I linked to earlier in the thread,  I believe is also Harrach but the enamelling is different to mine.  So this piece is the only one out of hundreds I have examined that I believe is a match to my jug  for both blank and enamelling.

 

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