Topic: Murano or Baccarat?

[Otis Orlando]

Hi, thinking of bidding on this paperweight.  Judging by the canes, I would of said Murano, but then again I could be wrong.  Any ideas within the next hour?   .  Not to worry if bidding ends, it would be interesting to know the maker though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281016508922;jsessionid=5401ED32626562DC322571A46253ADB9?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D281016508922%26_rdc%3D1

[paperweights]

You are not wrong.  It is from Murano and the date is a fake.

[Otis Orlando]

I can't believe I missed my bid, but very glad I did!  I think tiredness over powered  me.     My concern is, by having a date within the paperweight,............how can that  be misconstrued as being fake?   I am only asking.  Is it fake to have a date within the paperweight even though it was not made within that period............, I wonder.  I have read the description again and again.  There is no mention of stating that the paperweight was made of that period, unless I am reading wrong.  The description stated that there is a date within the paperweight,  which if not read and understood properly, can lead to disappointment and  loss.    Of course it would be an argumentative subject, matter,  but it is of my opinion that the seller would not be liable for misrepresentation in this case.  I suppose it is the potential buyers responsibility to investigate prior to purchase, would you not agree?  It also is of importance that the seller on the other hand makes clear with honesty in mind, what they are selling.  Anyway, thank you very much for letting us know and appreciate your contribution to this post.

[Wuff]

Is it fake to have a date within the paperweight even though it was not made within that period............, I wonder.

I am not sure if there is a unanimous definition of a "fake", so I'll just give you my very personal view: there are loads of these paperweights around - made second half 20th century, with year canes of the 19th century. The usual explanation is that the customer asked for that year to commemorate his grandaunt's year of birth. For me this is a lame excuse: these canes were put in to deceive people - whether you call it a fake or not.
What the ebay seller states is a different matter: you very rarely see this year described as year of manufacture. Conclusion: most sellers know it is not, and there are two types of sellers - some clearly state that, others don't, but leave it to the customer to find out themselves.

[daveweight]

Hi Otis
What Wolf says is absolutely correct and it is my understanding makers on Murano started using these fake dates canes in the 1950's/60's but no one seems to know why they did this.  Picture of my Murano Mushroom weight with 1846 cane attached

It is worth noting that Arculus weights bearing the 1848 date canes are also fake as these weights were made from the 1930's but again no reason is know for this

Dave

[Otis Orlando]

For me this is a lame excuse: these canes were put in to deceive people - whether you call it a fake or not.

Yes! to some degree I would certainly agree with you, however, the seller/buyer may not share the same view.  Not all sellers/makers, have deliberate intentions to deceive and I am not stating that you are saying this.  It is just beyond me that some makers will resort to deceive, if this is the case.  Even with this in mind, there is still  no concrete evidential fact to prove this,............. that deception has been committed!   With regards to the seller, lack of knowledge on the subject matter could possibly be a part of the reason, as some sellers  just sell without making any investigations into what they are selling.  With reference to the paperweight apparently being sold on Ebay.  The buyer might have or not have knowledge about the paperweight, but just brought it on the basis that they just liked it.  At the end of the day, the item was sold.   Power selling is a very complexed, interesting and in most cases disturbing subject and we all have different views about this.  I most certainly have taken on board the comments you both have made and will be more cautious when buying paperweights  of this kind and others mentioned.   Thank you for your contributions to this post, it has been very helpful and interesting.

[Wuff]

Well - I hope it was clear enough that my statements were making a difference between makers and sellers.

As for the makers, I cannot think for an acceptable reason: these canes were put in to deceive people.

As for the sellers - I said that most seem to be aware of the fact the weights are made much later, as you rarely find it stated the weight was made in ... whatever the year is. Whenever I notice such a statement, I contact the seller - the majority are surprised, but accept advice, few become rude - and I surely believe these sellers know the truth and also want to deceive ... fortunately they seem to be a minority.

I had not made any comment about the buyers, and I certainly will not imply they wanted to deceive ! I guess there will mainly be two types: either they belong to the group who are learning by making a mistake (we all have done that in the past, and still may be doing it again in future!) - or they knew what they are buying, but liked it anyway. There is nothing wrong with this - I myself own such a "1843" Murano perfume bottle: I liked it, felt I would like to have an example in my collection - and paid what I felt was a reasonable price for it.

[Otis Orlando]

I suppose by the comments made to this post will bring some awareness when purchasing these types of paperweights.  I certainly will be more cautious!