Topic: Ident Help, Please : Glass Thorn Double Vase

[MissPrints]

The main body color is a soft pale yellow with blue to the rims +  the blue swirls above the base at the juncture of the body with the base ''roots''. The glass of the base is a return to the yellow colour.

Six (6) roots comprise the base.

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/thorn1.jpg


Condition:  a break(?) ~ the pointed end of the topmost  finishing wrap of the branch has the shape of a songbird's head in profile.  The ''top'' of the head is soft to the touch. What would be considered the point of the ''beak'' is sharp and there's roughness to the top of the ''beak''. A semi-horizontal row of air(?) bubbles,  as shown here:


http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/thorn2.jpg

http://www.kiowamoon.com/silver/thorn3.jpg


Weight: 14 ounces

Diameter of base: 1 3/4(round portion)
Diameter, root tip to root tip:  4 1/4

Height: 5  3/4

Signature: none detected
Age: unknown
Maker: Unknown
Country of Manufacture: unknown

Shown with a Harrach vase with a similar root base from Collectible Bohemian Glass, 1880-1940 (Truitt, Robert & Deborah, 1995: B & D Glass, p. 63)

The vase resembles a rose bush or a berry vine~ perhaps that design was common(?) .

Note: based on a vintage (not factory) plain white label attached to its base, this vase was described as Thomas Webb. However, that label may have been attached by an appraiser( identity and time, unknown) long ago.   I no longer think that Webb, necessarily, may have had any relationship to this vase.

Thank you~

MissPrints

[Ivo]

lovely victorian vaseline table ornament often known as ' triffids' - one of our estimated members has an impressive collection of these and will hopefully chime in.
To the best of my knowledge these are British, they do not turn up in France or Germany at all.
 
Use clear nail varnish to soften the broken off edges, it is an acceptable restauration because it is reversible.

[Lustrousstone]

I agree English and Victorian. Webb is a likely candidate, though it is virtually impossible to find out who made most of these. A little damage is inevitable on these but what you're describing sounds like part of the manufacturing process.

[Bernard C]

Best to keep to "thorn vase" as you did in your title — then everyone will know what you are discussing.

Most were made by John Walsh Walsh, but a few may have been made by others as I have never found a patent or design registration specifically for the thorn element of thorn vases.   With the eclectic three-section foot, with each section split, opened out and passed over a stem, however rudimentary, and the three sections squashed together, they are always Walsh in my opinion and experience.

Walsh would have described the colour of yours as "canary opalescent", then standard terminology worldwide.   Dating is difficult — late Victorian to early C20 is about as accurate as we can get at present.   Certainly production had ceased by, and probably well before, the early 1920s.

Nice example.

Bernard C. 

[Leni]

Hi MissPrints!  I am the member with the large collection of these 'triffids' or, as they are more commonly known, thorn or 'rustic' vases.  In fact, I have one almost identical - in as much as these hand-made pieces can be said to be 'identical' - to yours. 

I have to agree with Ivo, Christine and Bernard that, while most are probably English and possibly Stourbridge, it is not possible to say for certain by whom they were made. 

Looking at your pictures, I would say that the 'twig' which you describe as a 'bird's head' could either be a break or could just have been roughly snipped off while the glass was soft.  I have examples where the ends of these 'branches' come to a smooth-ish rounded point, those where the end has obviously been broken off, and those where the end has been cut with the glass-makers scissors. 

To me, yours looks like a snip with scissors rather than a break.  Also, the one of mine which is most like yours is finished in just this way. (I will attach a photo of that one.) 

Yours a very nice piece!   

[chopin-liszt]

This one isn't an "Audrey" though - Audreys look like they're going to eat you. They have bulbous, often cranberry semi-flower-like tops and they look like Audrey from "The Little Shop of Horrors" (just to get you up to date with some more glassie "slang"... although it only tends to be used by some of us here.... for short. It was before we knew the proper words!)

[MissPrints]

Ivo~

I just purchased your book(new): notify your publisher that they owe you a HUGE royalty check. I look forward to the book's arrival here.

As you suggested, I added clear top coat nail polish to the area.   Additionally, that a ''restauration''
( from zee  French. Oui Oui!) is allowed, given its temporary nature, was a  happy surprise. 

Vaseline glass.  I've seen the term elsewhere but lacking any experience or way to compare, with any confidence, this vase to another vase,  I remained puzzled.   Not any more.



Hello, once again, to Lustrous stone, our lady of the beautiful glass gallery.

Bernard C

Thank you for Mr. Walsh Walsh as a strong possibility as artist. 

"canary opalescent"! Delightful=  the colouration descriptor is far more elegant than my
''pale yellow with blue''.  In the sunlight, the glass dances with life. I am particularly fond of the blue swirls toward the base. 

LENI--

When first I read the word triffid I thought of Tolkein so I went to wikipedia.  Why, there is an entire culture created around them: movies, comic books, and the BBC TV.  The Wiki drawing of a triffid resembles a Venus flytrap on steroids and LSD.

You wrote: To me, yours looks like a snip with scissors rather than a break.  Also, the one of mine which is most like yours is finished in just this way. (I will attach a photo of that one.)  

Thank you including your photo—and for the possibility that the area of my vase may be where the maker ceased working(he had to stop somewhere).  Incidentally, I  find your vase even prettier than mine=more of the blue.


Chopin-Liszt

Hello, once again. I'll play C's Ops 66 just for you.

* * * *


In sum, I THINK I can describe my vase as

Triffid Thorn Vaseline Vase
Maker: unknown; possibly John Walsh Walsh
Country of Origin: Likely England; not Germany or France
Colour:  canary opalescent with blue
Condition: bird's beak plateau [LENI] may be original to the piece


I have never before had the privilege to be in the presence of so much talent. 
While I don't wish to appear obsequious, nonetheless-- I am genuinely grateful.

BEST!

Marney

[Bernard C]

...   I have to agree with Ivo, Christine and Bernard that, while most are probably English and possibly Stourbridge, it is not possible to say for certain by whom they were made.   ...

Leni — I am very surprised by this comment, misquoting both me and Ivo.   I expected better.   Please never misquote or reinterpret what I have said on the GMB.   You are welcome to disagree, request further evidence, ignore my contributions, or anything else, but, please, never misquote me.

Marney — Thank you for your name.   John Walsh Walsh was the name of the glassworks, not an artist!   I didn't say Walsh was a strong possibility — I said that Walsh made your thorn vase.   Please do not misquote me.   You are welcome to disagree or anything else, but please don't misquote me.

Bernard C. 

[flying free]

Bernard I can't see where you said Marney's thorn vase was made by John Walsh Walsh?  Or I can't see that her vase is as you described the Walsh Walsh ones.

You described as per your quote  below a vase with 'the eclectic three-section foot, with each section split, opened out and passed over a stem, however rudimentary, and the three sections squashed together, they are always Walsh in my opinion and experience'. 
I can't see Marney's has three sections?  Can you explain to me please?  thanks.

And I can't see where you said Marney's was definitely Walsh Walsh in your comments. 
Thank you
m

Best to keep to "thorn vase" as you did in your title — then everyone will know what you are discussing.

Most were made by John Walsh Walsh, but a few may have been made by others as I have never found a patent or design registration specifically for the thorn element of thorn vases.   With the eclectic three-section foot, with each section split, opened out and passed over a stem, however rudimentary, and the three sections squashed together, they are always Walsh in my opinion and experience.

Walsh would have described the colour of yours as "canary opalescent", then standard terminology worldwide.   Dating is difficult — late Victorian to early C20 is about as accurate as we can get at present.   Certainly production had ceased by, and probably well before, the early 1920s.

Nice example.

Bernard C. 

[Bernard C]

m — in Marney's first picture the lowest section is root 12 o'clock through to root 6 o'clock, the next 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock, and the last 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock, although I may have the last two sections in the wrong order as the three sections have been squashed together pretty thoroughly.   It hadn't occurred to me that this wasn't obvious.   So, apologies, perhaps my words were a little strong, but it doesn't hurt to remind members that my views are reasonably well-considered and based on years of experience of handling, examining, and reading about glass, with a little experience of watching glassmakers at work.

Marney — with canary opalescent the opacity and the blue you see are all part of the opalescence, so adding "with blue" to canary opalescent is unnecessary.

Bernard C.