Author Topic: is this a Monart colourway please? - ID = Monart  (Read 2985 times)

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Offline Frank

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2012, 08:29:08 PM »
I have in the past made the assumption that polished flat bases are a feature of Paul Ysart and yes he was fastidious... but I suggest there is some other reason this one was rejected.

Yes that was Ian's perspective and it has validity even if I do not personally accept it as it also excludes a number of specials and one-offs that are known about.

see also
http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147:my-last-assumption-dating-monart&catid=24:john-moncrieff-limited&Itemid=13
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2012, 08:56:05 PM »
Thanks :) so is the Bonhams vase I linked to 430b i.e a pre-war vase? 
And if so, looking at the information in your link above, would that indicate that if the base of mine being polished flat it is   post war glass, which then I assume would mean it could not be a pre-cursor or trial for the one in the link as I suggested?
m


Offline Gary

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2012, 09:06:33 PM »
.
 I doubt they changed grinding wheel frequently, if at all, it is one of the best fingerprints of Monart in that is was nearly always done with a wheel of the size shown. Contrast with smaller wheels used in virtually all the Monart-a-likes by other makers.
I have 21 pieces of Monart with the pontil completely grounded out and the size of ground out portion varies from 3/4" (shape ZH ashtray) to 2 1/4" (shape IG), how is it possible to have such a wide variation of size of ground out portion if not with different size grinding wheels.
The grinding wheel shown in picture would be much to large for grinding Monart miniatures and small pieces bases.
The following photos are of corrospondence between Betty Reid(dispatch clerkess at Moncrieff's) and an American collector
Gary


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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2012, 10:16:54 PM »
Gary, my apologies, thank you also for taking the time to link to the pictures of the bases of your vases and for replying.  I very much appreciate it  :)
m


Offline Frank

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2012, 10:28:15 PM »
No relationship to the earlier piece shown on Bonhams, which is my favourite style of decoration of Monart.

It is unfinished because it is not polished. Amber bowl on eBay is probably not Monart.

Wheel shown could cope with a lot of different sizes from quite small, what you see on the grinding is not the shape of the wheel but the path that the grinder followed. You can use it in quite the same way as a bench grinder for metals although to see a skilled grinder at work you would be forgiven for not recognising how delicately they actually handle the pieces.

I should not worry too much about finding the colour code for yours. The table on ysartglass.com was first created in the 1980s and expanded online from 1999 to around 2004. Gary has done a lot more detective work on colour codes too, but with 500+ and many a/b/c variations are countless and will probably never be known, plus of course after WW2 it was necessary to get some colours in UK until Kugler were producing again. Adam A could quite likely tell you if your is a Kugler colour or not... which information would also serve no dating purpose but just be interesting. Aventurine of course came from France and if from a wholesaler there, was probably Italian anyway.
Frank A.
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Offline flying free

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2012, 11:07:17 PM »
Frank, sorry I feel as though I'm constantly asking questions, but when you say ' it is unfinished because it is not polished' are you referring specifically to the pontil mark on my vase?  because the rest of the base around it is polished and flat.  Any scratches on it are age wear but it really is highly polished.  Just the pontil mark is not. 
If so does that also mean my posy vase is 'unfinished' please?
many thanks again for your patience.
m


Offline Frank

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2012, 12:54:46 PM »
Yes as while not every piece had its grinding polished, most translucent did and particularly vases and those post-war pieces by Paul in particular.
Frank A.
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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2012, 07:10:34 PM »
thanks but on that basis,  I no longer have a Monart collection... none of my 4 vases have a polished pontil mark, all are finely ground surrounded by highly polished bases  :-\
m


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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2012, 11:11:34 PM »
I'm wondering if my description of the bases of my vases has caused some confusion here - I've been looking up Monart vases on this site and all so far (4) have shiny polished flat bases/base rings and a matt ground pontil mark that is not polished shiny like the rest of the base (or so it looks in the photos). This is the same as all my pieces, although the one in question , the amber with aventurine, has a double ground pontil mark. 

I can't see what the difference is between my vase and these.  The only difference is that mine has a double pontil mark, which surely means they needed to grind twice because for some reason where the pontil rod was removed left a longer gash perhaps.  I can't see that means it was unfinished.
   I know photos can be deceptive but I also can't see any difference between my other vases and the ones I've found on here.  The bases all look the same, shiny polished flat with a matt pontil mark.
m


Offline Frank

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Re: is this a Monart colourway please?
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2012, 11:02:11 AM »
I think you are being too particular and I have probably been over assertive and probably misleading in replying. With your amber piece I still feel it is unfinished but that is just my opinion not a statement of fact. The only thing is I cannot determine from your pictures why that would be, so I just go with my feelings.
Frank A.
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