Author Topic: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request  (Read 8849 times)

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Offline obscurities

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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2013, 09:46:51 PM »
The style of the applied foot would lead me to lean that direction, as it is a little unusual, and I have not seen that many examples using it. I am of course referring to the three "fins" on the top of the base.

That being said there is an image on the second page of this discussion which Kristi posted that shows some Harrach pieces as displayed in Passau. Taking that with a grain of salt, there is a similar decor shown among those examples, and I am referring to Amber glass with vertical wide stripes in it.

Based on foot design, and it's uniqueness, I would likely say there is a strong possibility it is Welz. Much more likely than not, I think.

Here is another example, image by Daniel "Griffiths.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/art-of-glass/8523068361/in/set-72157632900402241/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/art-of-glass/sets/72157630539984478/

Although a couple of these images in the group associated with the first link are labeled as Ruckl, I do not believe this is a Ruckl shape or decor.  The pink and green mica decor is found on several distinctive Welz shapes including the trophy vases in several forms and also on the tri-lobed heart form.  This example Daniel posted in his Flickr account also has this very distinctive foot design.

These pieces, are also in my opinion, most likely Welz production.

Hope that helps.... 

Craig
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Offline dirk.

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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2013, 12:10:36 PM »
Hi Craig,
I was leaning towards Welz for the vase also, because of a certain common feature between basket and
vase. Both show a top rim with a few mm just cranberry which then gradually fades to the inside of the
pieces.
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Offline keith

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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2013, 12:51:20 PM »
Another colour variation,as requested... ;D ;D


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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #133 on: September 28, 2013, 11:06:15 PM »
I am posting some images in an effort to enable the further clarification of what I feel are the distinct dangers of using indistinct spatter decors as a method of attribution. The decor in question is the one which has been utilized in an effort to link certain families of shapes to houses other than Welz. This decor can be most easily described as an Oxblood Spatter. In examining this style of decor as a means of attributing glass, it is critical that all aspects of the decor, and production techniques of the pieces, be taken into consideration. This of course needs to be done while considering shapes at same time.

This Oxblood spatter decor is found in a wide variety of shapes, and also in some quite different production technique configurations. These differences will be what I am looking at here.

The first image being presented below is of two pieces which are not only the same in terms of external decor and colors, but also the same in regards to to the visible lining color. In both cases these internal lining "colors" are cased with a thin layer of clear. The technique on these is the same, and both unique shapes have been linked successfully to Welz production. The non trophy example shown in that image, simply confirmed to me that the shape is a Welz shape. I would point out that the form is quite simplistic, and one needs to be extremely careful when attributing simplistic, but "similar" shapes to the same house.

We know for a fact that Ruckl made a similar shape and decor vase as the right example in the first image, but both the base and exact shape are different. The known Ruckl example also has applied Rigaree that trails down the body of the example in a spiral. 

The second image shows a group of Oxblood examples. Although a quick glance may give one the impression that there is a commonality between all of these and they came from the same house, that conclusion is, IMHO, incorrect.  I believe there are at least two distinct houses represented in the group, and possibly even three.

Of the seven pieces represented in the photograph, five are Welz, and I believe that two are not. At this point I am unsure of the origins of the pieces not produced by Welz.  Those pieces are the front left example and the tall piece in the back center. 

The Welz examples represented here are of two styles. The initial pieces shown in the first image are ones that share a common interior color, which is kind of a brick red. This color is lined with clear. The other examples are Welz examples which are lined in a kind of orange/yellow interior color which I simply call Cadmium. this internal color is also lined with clear. Although the external colors of clear, Oxblood and also white are the same in both styles of this decor by Welz, the overall appearance is slightly different as determined by the internal solid color background which was used.

What we see in the two non Welz examples are actually a visual presentation which from the outside appears to present the same, or quite similar decor.  In these examples the use of of colors is different.  The smaller piece is actually lined with a white, covered in clear. This example may, or may not be Welz, and for now I am leaving it as unidentified, as neither the decor or shape can currently be linked to Welz production.

The large example in the back also presents a decor which appears to be quite similar to the identified Welz examples, but in reality it is uniquely different from the Welz decors. This example has a decor background of white, a thick layer which can be seen quite clearly in the image of the mouth. Internal to that is a layer of light color, almost a Cranberry or Rose color. This internal color has no clear lining covering it.  This addition of internal color has no effect on the overall appearance of the decor as seen from the outside, as the white layer appears opaque. It appears to have been used to simply decorate the interior as visible at the mouth of the piece.  This particular technique is certainly not unique to Czech production, but it is not a technique that has been identified, at least yet, as a production or design technique used by Welz.  This example also has traces of what I refer to as Cadmium in the decor, but in this case it is mixed with the other colors to create the decor. In the case of the Welz production, the Cadmium is used as a background color which shows between the Oxblood and the white.

The third and fourth images show this large example alone, and also a detail of the internal layers and colors.

I hope my explanation here is clear.....

Craig
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #134 on: September 29, 2013, 09:19:10 AM »
Good research Craig. Here's another large trophy for the collection (if it's not Welz please ask the mods to delete)
Yellow, brown and orange enamelling. The mucky greenish white is definitely uranium glass

The mucky greenish white also reminded me if this "melon" vase, which is much less green in real life. Might this be Welz


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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #135 on: September 29, 2013, 02:30:04 PM »
Thanks Christine,

I have seen these white examples a handful of times. I do not really know either way. 

The melon shaped piece is not like anything I have determined to be Welz as of yet. Does not mean it isn't. I am sure there is a huge amount of glass that I, not others, will likely never figure out.

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #136 on: October 04, 2013, 03:51:39 PM »
I posted this vase in it's own thread, but thought I would also add it here as a new example of both decor and size. 10 inches tall and a green and white variegated I have never seen before... at least that I can recall.....

The pics are from the online auction, and used with the sellers permission.

I will add better pics when I receive the item.

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #137 on: October 10, 2013, 10:39:10 PM »
Let me start by adding better pics of the Welz variegated green trophy vase as promised. Also posted here with an image of it's smaller counterpart.  Color in the third pic is most accurate. 
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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #138 on: October 10, 2013, 11:29:25 PM »
So now I have a very interesting piece of glass, and an even more interesting comparison. I think that what we have here is a stellar example of why attention to details is so critical in the type of research I try to do regarding Welz production.

The first image in this portion of the post is of a group of 4 pieces of glass, all in the same decor. All react the same to UV light, with a glow of orange from the cadmium used to color one of the the lining layers. All of these contain the same colors of spatter in the decor and all exhibit the same type of spatter decor and variations.  I have previously linked the front 3 shapes to Welz though other decors, and I am certain of those links.  The color mix, and shades of colors used in this spatter are unique enough characteristics that I am of the belief that it is specific to one house, and not produced by multiple houses. Obviously I believe that house is Welz.

The vase in the background of the first image presents a real conundrum. I also have a covered biscuit jar in the same decor, not included in the group image.

So here is what I see with this large example in the rear of the image. I have this example in hand, and I have two images of Ruckl vases in the "same" shape. One which is used here with permission of the auction house, and the other is an image from Collectors Weekly and posted by the user who promotes his "Ruckl Research". A close comparison of those two Ruckl images brings me to conclusion that the two Oxblood pieces presented as Ruckl are actually the same. The Auction vase pictured here actually has a label which has been posted in this thread previously.

So when I found this vase I was quite shocked, as it appeared for all intents and purposes to be the same as the Ruckl, but in a decor which I have solidly linked to Welz production. It was an immediate purchase the second I saw it. The example of the Ruckl vase in Collectors Weekly provides dimension of the piece, and within reason the dimensions are also the same. Small differences here and there, but the differences could easily be attributed to different production runs or molds, so they are not of real importance as far as attribution is concerned.

In examining the Ruckl images before, I have done a "count" of the number of crimps in the applied clear trim at the foot. Although both of the Ruckl examples do not show a complete foot, both show enough for me to arrive at a pretty safe conclusion that they have the same number of foot crimps. Both of them appear to have 26 crimps which can be seen, and likely 30-32 crimps in the foot based on the percentage of the foot hidden by the stem and lower portion of the main body in the pics.

Although a quick glance at the two decors in this shape would lead one to assume they are the same, and therefore by the same house, the Welz piece I currently have in hand actually has a total of 26 crimps.  Although there appears to be a possible difference in the style and weight of the applied rigaree, this type of applique is such that I would not really give any weight to that difference.  There also appears to be a difference in the foot of the colored portion of the two vases, in that the Welz foot is taller than the Ruckl foot. This could also be as a result of slightly different molds, so that difference is not really given any weight at this point either. The real difference between these pieces is the number of crimps in the foot. My suspicion at this point is that the crimping tool used for these two production examples, the Ruckl and the Welz, although quite similar, were different enough that I would expect additional examples of this shape by either company would exhibit the same crimp count.

So at this point here is my working theory. I believe that the examples pictured here may be the closest replications of competitive product I have seen to date. Referred to on my website as a "Design shift", or the intentional mimicking of the physical shape of a competitors product.  I do believe the two examples compared here were produced by different firms, and only time, and the location of additional examples will prove out the theory one way or the other.  I certainly have learned to be patient while doing this research, and time has taught me that eventually the necessary information comes to light... that either reinforces or rebuffs the theory.

Until those examples appear, I am comfortable with my working theory stated above.

First image is of the decor on 4 Welz shapes.
Second image is of the Welz and Ruckl examples side by side
Third image is of three large examples representing 2, approx 10 inch trophy shapes  in two different Welz shapes, and the recently acquired bud style vase measuring in at just over 12 inches.

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


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Re: Uranium Opalescent Rigaree/Trailed Bud Vase I.D Request
« Reply #139 on: October 11, 2013, 12:10:55 AM »
'So here is what I see with this large example in the rear of the image. I have this example in hand, and I have two images of Ruckl vases in the "same" shape. One which is used here with permission of the auction house, and the other is an image from Collectors Weekly and posted by the user who promotes his "Ruckl Research". A close comparison of those two Ruckl images brings me to conclusion that the two Oxblood pieces presented as Ruckl are actually the same. The Auction vase pictured here actually has a label which has been posted in this thread previously.'

Just checking, since there is only one Oxblood picture on your post above, that what you mean here is that you have in your hand, a picture of another Oxblood vase but you've only put one on here that you have permission to post.  Therefore when you are doing your comparison, you are comparing the one you've put on here, with the other Oxblood that you have a picture of but that you haven't posted on this board?

Other than that query, I follow all that :) - An exciting working theory! I'll keep an eye out for any (and count the crimps before I buy).

Love the green!
m

 

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